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Origin of Slavs is Balkan


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#1    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 06:59 PM

http://www.turkicwor...GenealogyEn.htm
This is a short summary of Anatole thesis:
1) R1a and R1b are both from Altaï
2) 12.000 years ago R1a migrated and arrived in Balkans
3) Between 6.000 and 8.000 years ago R1b migrated westward from Altaï and arrived in the north of Black Sea. Cultures of Samara, Khvalynsk and Yamnaya
4) From here, 2 R1b migrations: the first one to Balkans and Italy and brings R1b-ht35, the second one to Caucasus, Near East, North Africa and Iberia. Then R1b-ht15 spreads in occidental Europe with Bell Beaker culture.
5) R1a migrated to North Europe, then eastward to Steppe between 5.000 or 4.000 years ago. Culture of Andronovo then R1a spread to Iran and India.

http://www.eupedia.c...hp/t-26108.html

http://www.academia...._Ancient_Europe

Big Bad Voodoo

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For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#2    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:01 PM

Well he is Hardvard professor. :innocent:

http://www.scirp.org...x?PaperID=17707

Origin of Aryans is Balkan.

Edited by Big Bad Voodoo, 21 September 2013 - 07:08 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#3    and then

and then

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:17 PM

What an arcane subject of study.  The methodology might actually be more interesting than the thesis.

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#4    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 07:21 PM

View Postand then, on 21 September 2013 - 07:17 PM, said:

What an arcane subject of study.  The methodology might actually be more interesting than the thesis.

Can you explained so that we, rest of mortals, can understand you?

Big Bad Voodoo

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#5    Frank Merton

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:08 PM

I have a pet theory that the Indo-Europeans or someone near them that they borrowed it from invented the wheel, or maybe just first used it to build wagons and attach animals for carrying things, and this is the reason their language is so widespread, including Slavs.


#6    cormac mac airt

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:23 PM

View PostBig Bad Voodoo, on 21 September 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

http://www.turkicwor...GenealogyEn.htm
This is a short summary of Anatole thesis:
1) R1a and R1b are both from Altaï
2) 12.000 years ago R1a migrated and arrived in Balkans
3) Between 6.000 and 8.000 years ago R1b migrated westward from Altaï and arrived in the north of Black Sea. Cultures of Samara, Khvalynsk and Yamnaya
4) From here, 2 R1b migrations: the first one to Balkans and Italy and brings R1b-ht35, the second one to Caucasus, Near East, North Africa and Iberia. Then R1b-ht15 spreads in occidental Europe with Bell Beaker culture.
5) R1a migrated to North Europe, then eastward to Steppe between 5.000 or 4.000 years ago. Culture of Andronovo then R1a spread to Iran and India.

http://www.eupedia.c...hp/t-26108.html

http://www.academia...._Ancient_Europe

Big Bad Voodoo

You might not want to rely too heavily on the above, either as to location or timeframe, as R1a appears to originate in the general area south of the Taklimakan Desert in Mongolia while R1b appears to originate from Western Asia. Neither of which is the Altai region.

Haplogroup R1a, Its Subclades and Branches in Europe during the Last 9000 Years (2012)

http://www.scirp.org...x?PaperID=21698

and

A major Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b Holocene era founder effect in Central and Western Europe (2011)

http://www.nature.co...jhg2010146a.pdf

cormac

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#7    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:26 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 21 September 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

You might not want to rely too heavily on the above, either as to location or timeframe, as R1a appears to originate in the general area south of the Taklimakan Desert in Mongolia while R1b appears to originate from Western Asia. Neither of which is the Altai region.

Haplogroup R1a, Its Subclades and Branches in Europe during the Last 9000 Years (2012)

http://www.scirp.org...x?PaperID=21698

and

A major Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b Holocene era founder effect in Central and Western Europe (2011)

http://www.nature.co...jhg2010146a.pdf

cormac

Okay so we originate from Mongolia. That explains my love for Mongols. :w00t:
Maybe rest of his theory is right. I will try to understand your provided links then I will respond if I will have anything smart to said.

Big Bad Voodoo

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For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#8    Big Bad Voodoo

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:28 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 21 September 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

I have a pet theory that the Indo-Europeans or someone near them that they borrowed it from invented the wheel, or maybe just first used it to build wagons and attach animals for carrying things, and this is the reason their language is so widespread, including Slavs.

No I think they were first to start riding horses. Again link with Mongols.

Big Bad Voodoo

Edited by Big Bad Voodoo, 21 September 2013 - 08:29 PM.

JFK: "And we are as a people, inherently and historically, opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy..."

#9    Frank Merton

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:38 PM

View PostBig Bad Voodoo, on 21 September 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

No I think they were first to start riding horses. Again link with Mongols.

Big Bad Voodoo
Mongols came much later and Indo-Europeans came from much further west in South-Central Asia.  The Mongol language is not related to Indo-European.  I base the idea of wagons on archeology.  I think it probably was a group in or near Mongolia that first domesticated horses to ride them.


#10    cormac mac airt

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:39 PM

View PostBig Bad Voodoo, on 21 September 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

Okay so we originate from Mongolia. That explains my love for Mongols. :w00t:
Maybe rest of his theory is right. I will try to understand your provided links then I will respond if I will have anything smart to said.

Big Bad Voodoo

That would only include R1a and not its descendant haplogroups such as R1a1, R1a2, etc. Nor would it include the parent group of R1a which is R1, the latter of which likely originates in the same general area as R1b.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#11    jaylemurph

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 09:25 PM

...I think we should be extremely hesitant to so closely link genetics and language as many here seem (relatively) happy to do. There is no certifiable one to one causal link between the two and confusing that seems only to lead to conclusions that are questionable.

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#12    Frank Merton

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 09:45 PM

View Postjaylemurph, on 21 September 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

...I think we should be extremely hesitant to so closely link genetics and language as many here seem (relatively) happy to do. There is no certifiable one to one causal link between the two and confusing that seems only to lead to conclusions that are questionable.

--Jaylemurph
I've been talking about language and ethnicity, others have been talking about genes.  I don't think anyone has linked them.


#13    Kaa-Tzik

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 10:23 PM

View PostBig Bad Voodoo, on 21 September 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

http://www.turkicwor...GenealogyEn.htm
This is a short summary of Anatole thesis:
1) R1a and R1b are both from Altaï
2) 12.000 years ago R1a migrated and arrived in Balkans
3) Between 6.000 and 8.000 years ago R1b migrated westward from Altaï and arrived in the north of Black Sea. Cultures of Samara, Khvalynsk and Yamnaya
4) From here, 2 R1b migrations: the first one to Balkans and Italy and brings R1b-ht35, the second one to Caucasus, Near East, North Africa and Iberia. Then R1b-ht15 spreads in occidental Europe with Bell Beaker culture.
5) R1a migrated to North Europe, then eastward to Steppe between 5.000 or 4.000 years ago. Culture of Andronovo then R1a spread to Iran and India.

http://www.eupedia.c...hp/t-26108.html

http://www.academia...._Ancient_Europe

Big Bad Voodoo
So, we are Hyperboreans Siberians, as this inheritor of R1a1 has always known suspected...


#14    cormac mac airt

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 11:13 PM

View PostKaa-Tzik, on 21 September 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

So, we are Hyperboreans Siberians, as this inheritor of R1a1 has always known suspected...

See Post #6.

cormac

The city and citizens, which you yesterday described to us in fiction, we will now transfer to the world of reality. It shall be the ancient city of Athens, and we will suppose that the citizens whom you imagined, were our veritable ancestors, of whom the priest spoke; they will perfectly harmonise, and there will be no inconsistency in saying that the citizens of your republic are these ancient Athenians. --  Plato's Timaeus

#15    Kaa-Tzik

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:05 AM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 21 September 2013 - 11:13 PM, said:

See Post #6.

cormac
Yes, I read the links, and I note that they, and other material, does not generally concern itself with population movements much further back than about 11,000 years ago. What I already knew, and is in the very interesting PDF contained in your first link, is that R1a is thought to have originated in central Asia 20,000 years ago. The term central Asia is rather vague, the same as "thought" and can easily be stretched to include Southern Siberia, that area between the Ural and Altai mountains that contains the vast majority of the modern Siberian population. Looking at a map it can be seen that area can be described just as much as being the Southerly part of North Asia as the Northerly part of central Asia, and includes Kazakhstan, that is seen as being part of central Asia.

Edited by Kaa-Tzik, 22 September 2013 - 09:06 AM.





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