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Adam Kokesh 2020: Abolish the Federal Govt


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#1    Yamato

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:05 AM

As some of you may know, Adam Kokesh's house was raided with a warrant by SWAT and other LEOs on July 9 2013 where magic mushrooms were allegedly found, a shotgun he bore and loaded in Freedom Plaza on July 4, 2013 was confiscated as evidence, and he has been behind bars since July 10, 2013.  In an exclusive interview he reveals his plans from jail to run for President on the platform of "the orderly dissolution of the United States Government".   Would any of you actually vote for that?  





Listening to his girlfriend tell it, his time in jail so far has been...really interesting.



"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
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#2    Yamato

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 07:54 PM

Should I take silence as a "no"? I'm taking it as a soft no.

Lots of libertarian leaning folks here....nobody would vote for a ticket based on abolishing the US govt?    Other than having balanced budgets is there an actual reason why the States are too incompetent to handle it?    Could it be the big three federal entitlements, the military, Social Security, and Medicare/Medicaid?  

Are some of us avoiding this discussion because it's too scary to talk about, now that Kokesh is a political prisoner?  

Small-govt types, is his platform too extreme?  Will these questions probe the limits of your ideology?

Big-government types:  How do you feel about the home team putting someone in a cage for having mushrooms?

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#3    Leonardo

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:27 PM

View PostYamato, on 28 September 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

Are some of us avoiding this discussion because it's too scary to talk about,

No, I'm just wondering why he is so obviously being acclaimed a 'hero' for loading a shotgun in a public square, contrary to the State or District law? Is it because he has twitter, youtube and social media savvy?

Edited by Leonardo, 28 September 2013 - 08:28 PM.

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#4    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:36 PM

At least he is trying something to change the corrupt system. Surely state governments are more efficient and accountable than Federal. So what is the actual problem with this suggestion. I have been following Kokesh since he was arrested the first time (before he loaded a shotgun, such a crime, wont somebody please think of the children!?) and i support his thoughts  and actions


#5    Yamato

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:37 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 28 September 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

No, I'm just wondering why he is so obviously being acclaimed a 'hero' for loading a shotgun in a public square, contrary to the State or District law? Is it because he has twitter, youtube and social media savvy?
He was planning an armed march on DC scheduled for July 4.  Many people including me felt it was a crazy idea since the moment your foot crosses the line you are a gun felon who loses his 2nd Amendment rights for life.   It was highly controversial, highly criticized, and eventually canceled.   Kokesh got a lot of negative feedback on his social media channels.   I wonder in hindsight how much he was goaded by other people online to pull this stunt and land himself behind bars.   It was a miscalculated risk and a stupid idea.    And it's an instance of civil disobedience where he sacrificed himself for a greater good , that's why he's thought of as a hero by some.   Although I'm not really sure who you're referring to when you say that.

The 2nd Amendment doesn't say unloaded loaded.   It said arms, which without ammo, would be useless.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#6    Kowalski

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:40 PM

View PostYamato, on 28 September 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

Should I take silence as a "no"? I'm taking it as a soft no.

Lots of libertarian leaning folks here....nobody would vote for a ticket based on abolishing the US govt? Other than having balanced budgets is there an actual reason why the States are too incompetent to handle it? Could it be the big three federal entitlements, the military, Social Security, and Medicare/Medicaid?  

Are some of us avoiding this discussion because it's too scary to talk about, now that Kokesh is a political prisoner?  

Small-govt types, is his platform too extreme?  Will these questions probe the limits of your ideology?

Big-government types:  How do you feel about the home team putting someone in a cage for having mushrooms?

Interesting....I'd support him.

Of course, you must remember that some people in the US need the government to wipe their a$$ for them as well....


#7    acidhead

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:44 PM

Freedom!

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#8    acidhead

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:46 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 28 September 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:



No, I'm just wondering why he is so obviously being acclaimed a 'hero' for loading a shotgun in a public square, contrary to the State or District law? Is it because he has twitter, youtube and social media savvy?
civil disobedience

"there is no wrong or right - just popular opinion"

#9    Razer

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:46 PM

I would love to see some discussion here about this.

View PostLeonardo, on 28 September 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

No, I'm just wondering why he is so obviously being acclaimed a 'hero' for loading a shotgun in a public square, contrary to the State or District law? Is it because he has twitter, youtube and social media savvy?

While I might not agree with his methods, I got to give him props for standing up for his beliefs and risking jail time.


#10    Leonardo

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:53 PM

View PostYamato, on 28 September 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

And it's an instance of civil disobedience where he sacrificed himself for a greater good...

What "greater good"? That he thought the law in that District was wrong?

That's not a "greater good", that's just an opinion.

Razer,

Quote

While I might not agree with his methods, I got to give him props for standing up for his beliefs and risking jail time.

Does anyone who stands up for their beliefs get "props" from you, regardless their methods?

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#11    Yamato

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:00 PM

To answer my own question, I have to say no, I couldn't vote for Kokesh if this is going to be the platform he runs on.    Abolishing the USG abolishes the Constitution as well.  This is radical and too dangerous for me.   There's no way in the world he could win an election in 2020 running on that when the country couldn't even stomach Ron Paul in 2012.    I just don't think the failure is going to be epic enough by 2020 to make such a thing possible.  Maybe in another 20-30 years when Adam is in his fifties, after the full force of the fiscal failure is known to all.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#12    Yamato

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:03 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 28 September 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

What "greater good"? That he thought the law in that District was wrong?

That's not a "greater good", that's just an opinion.

Razer,



Does anyone who stands up for their beliefs get "props" from you, regardless their methods?
Standing up for one's beliefs is admirable in its own right yes.  I'm regarding the methods as well.

The 2nd Amendment along with our other Constitutionally guaranteed rights is the greater good.  The rule of law is not an "opinion".

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#13    Gromdor

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:18 PM

I find it ironic that he is advocating dissolution of the federal government and turning over power to the states, when he is famous for violating a local government (D.C.) law on gun control.   The only difference I see between state and federal government is that with federal government you at least get uniformity of the law.  Though I can see how special interests would be more in favor of the smaller state governments because it would be easier to control.


#14    Leonardo

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:22 PM

View PostYamato, on 28 September 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

Standing up for one's beliefs is admirable in its own right yes.  I'm regarding the methods as well.

The 2nd Amendment along with our other Constitutionally guaranteed rights is the greater good.  The rule of law is not an "opinion".

So you are acclaiming this man for standing up for to what amounts to a federal law, and simultaneously denouncing a State/District Law, yet all the while he is campaigning to "abolish federal govt/law and pass authority back to the States." :blink:

It sounds like he, and you, are confused as to what institution actually reflects this "greater good".

Edited by Leonardo, 28 September 2013 - 09:24 PM.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#15    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:32 PM

View PostGromdor, on 28 September 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

I find it ironic that he is advocating dissolution of the federal government and turning over power to the states, when he is famous for violating a local government (D.C.) law on gun control.   The only difference I see between state and federal government is that with federal government you at least get uniformity of the law.  Though I can see how special interests would be more in favor of the smaller state governments because it would be easier to control.

And state governments that sell out would be voted out at the next election. This is how decentralization of power works. You can also expect greater voter turn-out as people realize that in smaller electorates their voice is louder.

And yes, many states would pass stricter gun laws/keep their strict gun laws on the books. But this would just lead to more diverse communities and more choice on what type of society you want to live in.





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