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Thoughts on Virgin Mary


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#1    ambelamba

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:26 AM

What I am about to say will probably baffle many Catholics. Probably it won't offend them, but will make them "Huh?".

So let's say Mary the mother of Jesus is really the Queen of Heaven. And she gets all the praise and veneration. Now I have a serious 'out of the box' question.

Would she enjoy all the brown-nosing? Seriously, can people think of the possibility that all the veneration is exactly the thing that Mary wants to avoid?

Maybe it's an exclusive kind of idea in Asia, but it is said that truly enlightened person will humbly avoid all the praises. Why should Mary any different? What if all the apparitions are nothing but metaphysical follies and real Mary wants be peacefully left alone?

Same thing can be applied to God. What if true God of universe has absolutely no interest in glorifying himself, unlike Christian Bible suggests? You know, I think it's kinda like opening a whole silo full of worms. But sometimes it's fun to think about other possibilities without outright blasphemy.

Now I picture how real Mary the mother of Jesus was. A Semite girl who's barely into her teens. She looks nothing like that frakking porcelain doll. An elfin, olive-skinned girl who doesn't know how to read or write, which is very typical for pretty much everyone back then. I can't even imagine how her personality was. Considering that 1st century Palestine was one of the roughest place to live in the entire planet, wouldn't she be a tough girl? I have no idea.


#2    libstaK

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:37 AM

Mary is the compassionate supplicant who prays for our souls and beseeches mercy on our behalf.  Her acts are completely humble and I do not believe that she can be "brown nosed" by anyone but will simply continue to pray and perhaps, if the stories are true of Fatima and Madjegorje amongst others, intercede to assist us when we are lost or losing our way.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

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#3    Frank Merton

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:47 AM

Mary is the Roman Catholic equivalent of our Quan Yin (Or Guanyin according to Wikkipedia).  There are similar statues of her all over Vietnam.  The one improvement is we don't have the bloody ones.


#4    ambelamba

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:48 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 01 October 2013 - 03:47 AM, said:

Mary is the Roman Catholic equivalent of our Quan Yin (Or Guanyin according to Wikkipedia).  There are similar statues of her all over Vietnam.  The one improvement is we don't have the bloody ones.

You nailed it. Thank you.


#5    Frank Merton

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:49 AM

Vietnamese often accept compliments or gifts without any comment.  To thank the person giving it is to take away from their merit by giving them a reward.

I must say that is an old fashioned idea and most Vietnamese now generally follow Western practice on this.


#6    Star of the Sea

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:28 AM

If you look at the scripture (taken from the Aramaic translation) you can see that she knew  that she was blessed and that all generations would honour her.


Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“For he has regarded the lowliness of his Maidservant, for behold, from this hour all generations will ascribe blessedness to me.”

I think libstak said it eloquently.

Edited by Star of the Sea, 01 October 2013 - 08:29 AM.

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#7    Star of the Sea

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:49 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 01 October 2013 - 03:47 AM, said:

Mary is the Roman Catholic equivalent ur Quan Yin (Or Guanyin according to Wikkipedia).  There are similar statues of her all over Vietnam.  The one improvement is we don't have the bloody ones.

I can see why you would try and compare Guanyin, but when I look at the story of Guanyin I can't see  any parallels with regard to the Virgin Mary, who according to tradition gave birth to the son God.

"Love one another as I have loved you" John 15:9-17

#8    Frank Merton

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:51 AM

Of course you wouldn't see the similarity.  You have to have eyes in order to see.


#9    Star of the Sea

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:55 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 01 October 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

Of course you wouldn't see the similarity.  You have to have eyes in order to see.

Hi Frank,

I'm just going out for the day. I'd be interested to see your thoughts on why you think this. Have a great day. :)

"Love one another as I have loved you" John 15:9-17

#10    Frank Merton

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 10:43 AM

Mary plays a role very similar in Roman Catholics that Quan Yin plays in China and related countries.  She is a consolation mother figure one can pray to or adore and receive mercy and blessings and consolation.  Even the standard ways of displaying the two figures demonstrate this.


#11    Star of the Sea

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 07:50 PM

Thanks for replying Frank  with your thoughts. Apologies as I couldn't directly quote from your reply as I am having trouble posting using my phone. I appreciate that the Virgin Mary and  Quan Yin have the same sort of veneration etc but the actual back story of them both is so far removed that I can't JIMO see any similarities.

"Love one another as I have loved you" John 15:9-17

#12    ambelamba

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 11:42 PM

View PostStar of the Sea, on 01 October 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

I can see why you would try and compare Guanyin, but when I look at the story of Guanyin I can't see  any parallels with regard to the Virgin Mary, who according to tradition gave birth to the son God.

The psychological mechanism of the veneration of two are basically the same.


#13    Star of the Sea

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:55 AM

View Postambelamba, on 01 October 2013 - 11:42 PM, said:

The psychological mechanism of the veneration of two are basically the same.

Yes I see that, but as I said to Frank I can understand the veneration etc is similar but that is all ambelamba.

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#14    Frank Merton

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:06 AM

They are both mythical goddesses; what more can be said.


#15    Star of the Sea

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:45 AM

View PostFrank Mertonstamp= said:

They are both mythical goddesses; what more can be said.

The Virgin Mary is not a godess Frank :P

"Love one another as I have loved you" John 15:9-17




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