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Damascus gas attack not by Assad


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#1    Kaa-Tzik

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 05:46 PM

Here is a link to a report carried out by and under the direction of Mother Agnes Mariam el-Salib into the Damascus gas attack of August 21. I have not read it all yet myself, but thought to link it here now. This is not the final report, which is due soon, it is what is called in the document a "rush translation".

On a brief look through I notice some photos that while not gruesome in a graphic way, may disturb some, though nothing not seen on TV news.
http://tarpley.net/d...outa-Report.pdf

Edited by Kaa-Tzik, 01 October 2013 - 05:55 PM.


#2    Kaa-Tzik

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:18 PM

For those not wishing to click links to pdf files, here is a summary copied verbatim from the document. Some of this is already in the public domain, but the report fleshes it out considerably, particulary with names of the dead victims, an important factor strangely missing from all other reports and accounts. So many dead and not one of them had a name, or should I say not the "correct" type of name....

Finding: Ghouta Chemical Weapons Massacre Videos Preceded the Attack (pp. 4-5)
The 13 videos purporting to show the events in East Ghouta during the early morning of August 21 were complete and were uploaded to the YouTube social media site in California, USA, in advance of the earliest reports of the attack. Logs of activity on YouTube as well as downloads of the material by ISTEAMS members show that the videos were produced before the claimed chemical massacre.

Finding: Ghouta Is a Ghost Town, the Population All Fled the Rebels (pp. 8-11)
East Ghouta is a distant eastern suburb (exurb) of Damascus that was until recently a farming community. The urban population came mostly from Damascus and fled there as refugees to family members when rebels seized the town. Ghouta is no longer a community that includes women and children, but rather an armed camp of militant men, including many violent zealots. The social picture represented in insurgent videos is at complete variance with the demographic facts and street scenes of Ghouta under occupation there are no women or children to be seen at all. Also,insurgent medical responders appearing in videos revealed that large numbers of children casualties were sleeping dormitory style in a few facilities, where they were all killed by gas in the early hours of August 21st (page 11). Even though the children were assembled together in Ghouta, their names are never given.

Finding: Major Medical Discrepancies in Videos (pp. 12-13)
Medical personnel presented in the videos and subquent news presentations by al Jazeera differ starkly in their factual accounts of events, the availability of medication and its efficacy in the situation, and their personal safety while working with chemical weapons victims and environments.

Finding: No Women; Children Shown Sleeping on Floors in Street Clothes (pp. 14-17) Videos depicting the casualties show large numbers of children supposedly sleeping on floors and wearing day clothes. Families shown together also wear day clothes.

Finding: Staged and Fake Images (pp. 19-35)
A sensational photograph claimed as proof of the attack actually shows casualties from an Egyptian riot. Other images are obviously staged and many use victims as props. Still others appear to show children dead, and then subsequently alive. This is unlawful propaganda of the most cynical and ghoulish kind.

Finding: Victims May Be Abducted Women and Children from Latakia (pp. 36-43)Possibly most disturbing, the findings of this initial report establish multiple connections between the Ghouta massacre and a series of terrorist massacres and wholesale abductions in several towns in western Syria during several days in early August 2013. These massacres occurred in the region surrounding the seaport of Latikia.

CONCLUSION
Ghouta Child Victims Were Abducted by Terrorists from Latakia (Name list, pp. 45-50)After insurgents murdered the men in these communities, they organized mass abductions of the surviving women and children. ISTEAMS' report includes evidence that links these abductions to the ensuing chemical attack(s) that killed mainly women,  children, and infants in Ghouta, east of Damascus, on August 21, 2013. Women and children who went disappeared after their families were massacred in Latakia appear to be among the Ghouta victims shown in Western propaganda videos.

Edited by Kaa-Tzik, 01 October 2013 - 06:25 PM.


#3    Kowalski

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:35 PM

Thanks for the link! :tu:

Very informative.....

I must say, that I tend to believe her on this.

Edited by Burt Gummer, 01 October 2013 - 06:37 PM.


#4    Kaa-Tzik

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 07:24 PM

View PostBurt Gummer, on 01 October 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

Thanks for the link! :tu:

Very informative.....

I must say, that I tend to believe her on this.
Having now read all of it I think in just this interim report she has enough to demolish the rebel propaganda. This is going to be uncomfortable for many, and she only needs to be correct about just one video having been uploaded before the attack, but she provides a list of scores. Going to be difficult to explain this away. If this report is correct, then those responsible should be hunted until the end of their days. I have a feeling though that as she is not a powerful organisation or government, then she will be ignored in the US, UK and France, and by those countries media.


#5    and then

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 01:36 AM

Regardless who it was that used these weapons the response is to do nothing.  A flurry of activity is going on now for the world's cameras and consciences but there isn't really going to be any price paid for this atrocity.  I have no idea who used the gas.  I believe it was Assad but I realize it is also possible that the rebels did it.  Hopefully there will be no repeat of this in future but I think there may well be.  If some of this were used in a subway in the west and a few dozens or hundreds were killed then I would expect true outrage and a blind lashing out at someone.  Chances are that it could never be proven conclusively.  That seems to be where we are these days.  There will always be doubt of who is responsible.  Imagine if a terror group used a nuke and no real proof existed.

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#6    Shiloh17

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 02:53 AM

All the evidence shows the rebels did it. Especially the part where abducted children were recognized by the mothers.
How can abducted children suddenly become "victims" to a chemical attack in another city?
And she did a nice job exposing some of the videos and pictures as staged, for example the one which was actually
from the Cairo massacre, presented as evidence of a chemical attack.


#7    and then

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 04:45 AM

View PostRealm, on 02 October 2013 - 02:53 AM, said:

All the evidence shows the rebels did it. Especially the part where abducted children were recognized by the mothers.
How can abducted children suddenly become "victims" to a chemical attack in another city?
And she did a nice job exposing some of the videos and pictures as staged, for example the one which was actually
from the Cairo massacre, presented as evidence of a chemical attack.
I sincerely hope that the rebels do not have access to these weapons.  If they try a false flag against Israel we are apt to see the beginning of at least a massive regional war.  Quite possibly it could escalate into the whole world.

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#8    Yamato

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 05:01 AM

Remember all those stale chemicals that Saddam Hussein was supposed to have?  

View Postand then, on 02 October 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

If they try a false flag against Israel ...Quite possibly it could escalate into the whole world.
That's what we've been trying to tell you about Obama, McCain, and all the other neocon forces of bipartisan flatulence in the govt today   And no, it wouldn't be okay if Willard was doing it.  

But maybe it's only the false flags against Israel that would usher in the war?   That says everything I need to know about who the real threat to world peace is.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
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#9    Yamato

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 05:06 AM

If everything you've said over the months about how dangerous Israel is is true, it needs to be dealt with harshly.   Iron-fisted diplomacy is probably as harsh as I can think to be just so the country can save its face on the way out of this "relationship" we've been locked into for far too long now.   I'm tired of seeing the US be targeted because of this bedamned stepchild in the Middle East we've guiltily inherited from our wonderful British allies.   There's no room for sweethearts and secrets and backroom handshakes and endless sales pitches about righteousness in the 21st century.   I know the difference between right and wrong.  Israel is wrong and the accounting is piling up.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
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#10    Kaa-Tzik

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 07:31 AM

View Postand then, on 02 October 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

I sincerely hope that the rebels do not have access to these weapons.  If they try a false flag against Israel we are apt to see the beginning of at least a massive regional war.  Quite possibly it could escalate into the whole world.
The rebels have Sarin, it has been proved in other attacks and from the seizure of chemicals in Turkey. The Sarin used in the August 21 attack has the same chemical signature as gas used by rebels previously, except in a higher concentration. You want something done about this, I want something done about, any civilised person wants something done about this, but the way forward is not for obstructionism and cynical warmongering by the intellectual and moral pygmies Obama and Kerry working for the interests of US/Israel alone. Arabs are not "untermensch", and have a right to life. Luckily not all Israelis see them this way, and are more moral than the warmongers in Washington and the Western media that is psychotic in it's blood lust.


#11    Mr.United_Nations

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:21 AM

What happened to the Russian scientist one? the report that the Syrian government had? any news?


#12    Kaa-Tzik

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:34 AM

View PostThe New Richard Nixon, on 02 October 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

What happened to the Russian scientist one? the report that the Syrian government had? any news?
There is no Russian report specificaly about the August 21 attack. However, there was a Russian report submitted to the UN in July about the March 19 gas attack in Aleppo. This report was a proper scientific analysis, and though it concluded that this was an attack by the rebels using sarin, the report itself is not yet made available to the public. It is on what is in this report that I have said that the sarin used in both attacks was the same concoction, except for the sarin used in the Damascus attack being stronger.


#13    Leonardo

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:47 AM

View Postand then, on 02 October 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

Regardless who it was that used these weapons the response is to do nothing.

With all due respect, when there was a consensus of belief the Assad regime was behind the Gouta chemical attack the response was very definitely "to do something" - that something being direct military intervention. It was only the patience, diplomacy and insistence of Russia that prevented that.

You may be right, however, that the result this time will be to do nothing, as declaring the rebels (or factions within them) as the war criminals responsible would undermine the Western powers' efforts to isolate and discredit Assad's govt.

Edited by Leonardo, 02 October 2013 - 10:48 AM.

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#14    Yamato

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 12:02 PM

We must tread carefully with nothing, everything, always, and never.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#15    and then

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 01:31 PM

View PostYamato, on 02 October 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

If everything you've said over the months about how dangerous Israel is is true, it needs to be dealt with harshly.   Iron-fisted diplomacy is probably as harsh as I can think to be just so the country can save its face on the way out of this "relationship" we've been locked into for far too long now.   I'm tired of seeing the US be targeted because of this bedamned stepchild in the Middle East we've guiltily inherited from our wonderful British allies.   There's no room for sweethearts and secrets and backroom handshakes and endless sales pitches about righteousness in the 21st century.   I know the difference between right and wrong.  Israel is wrong and the accounting is piling up.
So say most nations on the planet.  It stands to reason that eventually they WILL attempt to "settle accounts".  So be it.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.




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