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French court rules on Sikh boys


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#16    bathory

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Posted 24 October 2004 - 01:52 PM

so you support the union of church and state?


#17    Talon

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Posted 24 October 2004 - 04:57 PM

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These poor girls have no choice but to obide by ugly rules! The fact that people are forced to obide by certain rules dont change the fact that those laws might be in violation of their human rights, and these new laws violate women's freedom to dress as they like, unless of course you believe that these rights dont apply to Muslim women!


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The basic problem regarding this controversial law is that not only it forbids something as basic as the freedom to choose your own clothing (as long as it's not violating the public nudity laws, and it's not)



Utter rubbish, your saying I take it too that school uniform is against human rights as it takes away "freedom to dress as they like". Police uniforms takes away "freedom to dress as they like". Fire fighter uniforms takes away "freedom to dress as they like". Military uniforms takes away "freedom to dress as they like" ete etc. If its so ugly then they can leave the country.


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Well, when the French moved to north African countries, they took their own laws at gun point with them and forced the natives to submit or face torture and death!


Your saying the Arabs are moving to France to occupy it us? God no wonder their far-right movement is rising if thats your attitude / plan rolleyes.gif


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Plus the fact that if you're a christian you can wear a cross inside your clothing and nobody notices, while a muslim woman can't wear her scarf this way. When this law was made, it was made with a christian mentality, clearly.


Your saying they should have strip searches to find hidden crosses etc yes? ohmy.gif That is completely unacceptable! These are children!



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As for statements like "The law it's the law, obey or leave", these sound bit too much like KKK legislation to me. 


Considering every country expects its citzens to obey the law I take it your claiming ever country is run by the KKK. ... so, tell me, if someone killed your wife, would you be understanding, because it was KKK-like of the government to expect them to obey the laws againstmurder?


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#18    zephyr

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Posted 24 October 2004 - 05:52 PM

School and police uniforms have nothing to do with the subject of discussion here!
I have seen sikhs and Muslim women in all sorts of uniforms! Your analogy is totally misleading blink.gif
I did not say anything even close to what you thought I said about the Arabs moving to France! Would you leave your own country if you felt your rights were violated?


#19    alis

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Posted 24 October 2004 - 11:13 PM

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I don't believe for one moment that they actually like wearing the attire thay do. I do not believe its a choice they themselves would make.


hahahahahahaahahahahahahaha

Just shows how many middle eastern people you know doesnt it. i know some women who would scratch your eyes out if you took it off them, and no, scratching eyes out is not a cultural thing there,lol.


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I agree, if these pupils don't want to follow the law they can go to a Sikh or Islamic country respectively and wear their turbans or headscarfs.



mmm how lucky we are in the west to be able to dress how we like .rolleyes.gif  
i once thought that the west was better for allowing us to choose our religion and wear whatever we like, shame all good things must come to and end.


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Bugger all to do with human rights, and I couldn't give a stuff about their citizenship. When their parents/grandparents moved to France they agreed to live by the laws of the FRENCH, in the country of the FRENCH, and abide by what the FRENCH felt was acceptable or not in their own country.


i know some english people who had fathers stationed in libya for an oil company rolleyes.gif  where alcohol was illegal. the locals abided by the rules but the good old english said 'no', ' we cant live without it, so stuff the law'. one rule for you, and another for us is it talon????????????????

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#20    Asterix

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Posted 25 October 2004 - 08:36 AM

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some english people who had fathers stationed in libya for an oil company  where alcohol was illegal. the locals abided by the rules but the good old english said 'no', ' we cant live without it, so stuff the law'.


And many more examples like this one..

Plus (and OK, now I'll plunge into the depths of history) it should be interesting to remind that in the medieval times, when Spain was under muslim control, jews and christians were not hunted down. When Spanish rule came back to power, ppl were given the offer to either beome christians or leave. Throught the ages, it's clear that it has been christians, mostly, (well, the official church anyway) that was prejudiced and biased and xenophobic, not other religions.

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#21    Talon

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Posted 26 October 2004 - 07:13 PM

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School and police uniforms have nothing to do with the subject of discussion here!
I have seen sikhs and Muslim women in all sorts of uniforms! Your analogy is totally misleading 


No it isnít, rolleyes.gif  both are state institutions, both have uniforms. Your claiming uniforms are a breach of rights.

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Would you leave your own country if you felt your rights were violated?


My parents did think about leaving during the Thatcher regimeÖ I donít know Iíd have to see how bad it got. rolleyes.gif



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mmm how lucky we are in the west to be able to dress how we like . 
i once thought that the west was better for allowing us to choose our religion and wear whatever we like, shame all good things must come to and end.


Oh grow up and read the article, its in schools only, not the street. We've been making children conform to school dress of genrations and you never moaned about that.

This is part of an ongoing attempt by the government to remove the church from state after hundreds of years of being ruled by it, bugger all to do with anyone here's paranioa of anti-Islam.


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i know some english people who had fathers stationed in libya for an oil company  where alcohol was illegal. the locals abided by the rules but the good old english said 'no', ' we cant live without it, so stuff the law'. one rule for you, and another for us is it talon????????????????


Apparently it is ďone rule for you, and another for us is itĒ, since the Jews and Christians have accepted the rule banning religious items in schools, and yet itís the people your supporting you want special treatmentÖ ďone rule for you, and another for us is itĒ.

Let me ask you this, would these English people be allowed to take there alcohol into a school?


And btw, I'm not English (totally DIFFERENT ethnic group), so it isn't a one rule for me

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And many more examples like this one..

Plus (and OK, now I'll plunge into the depths of history) it should be interesting to remind that in the medieval times, when Spain was under muslim control, jews and christians were not hunted down. When Spanish rule came back to power, ppl were given the offer to either beome christians or leave. Throught the ages, it's clear that it has been christians, mostly, (well, the official church anyway) that was prejudiced and biased and xenophobic, not other religions.



Ö your going to try and use the actions of people who arenít even alive now to justify your stanceÖ huh.gif  icÖ rolleyes.gif  and I guess we should still be angry at Germany, your allies during WW2 against the Soviets, for that whole Nazi thingÖ even though the majority of living Germans were born after thatÖ yet itís a lot closer in time to us that the Inquisition. And btw, we criticise Christianity too, so you canít claim we play favourites tongue.gif


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#22    alis

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 12:07 AM

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Oh grow up and read the article, its in schools only, not the street. We've been making children conform to school dress of genrations and you never moaned about that.


i know its in schools only  talon rolleyes.gif the point is how is a sikh, muslim, jew, or anyone hurting anyone by conforming to their religion. the west is SUPPOSED to represent freedom. if it offends people, then im sorry, its their problem, they're easily offended because im not offended when i see a sikh wearing a turban or a jew wearing a kippot (i think thats right) or a christian wearing a crusifix necklace.


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Let me ask you this, would these English people be allowed to take there alcohol into a school?


do you think they'd learn much drunk??? laugh.gif

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And btw, I'm not English (totally DIFFERENT ethnic group), so it isn't a one rule for me


mr mature himself thinks he's a cut above the rest, trying to tell me about my own country!!! laugh.gif

thanks for the laughs tal!!

thumbsup.gif


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#23    Talon

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 01:27 AM

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i know its in schools only talon  the point is how is a sikh, muslim, jew, or anyone hurting anyone by conforming to their religion. the west is SUPPOSED to represent freedom. if it offends people, then im sorry, its their problem, they're easily offended because im not offended when i see a sikh wearing a turban or a jew wearing a kippot (i think thats right) or a christian wearing a crusifix necklace.



It has nothing to do with offence, it is to do with secularism. After hundreds of years of their government being run by the church, their saying no more and making sure that the church and state have no contact with each, right done to making sure no a shred of religion ANY RELIGION appears in School, which influence children and are a state sponsored institute.


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do you think they'd learn much drunk???



Exactly, alcohol is offensive to your culture and would not be allowed in schools (wouldnít be allowed in schools here either mind out, but itís the example you choose for your case, so itís the one we must run with). The same as the French culture value state and religion to be separate, hence why they wont allow religious symbols near a state institution which is to educate children, not expose their educatio to religius influences which have ruled the French for far to long.

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And btw, I'm not English (totally DIFFERENT ethnic group), so it isn't a one rule for me


mr mature himself thinks he's a cut above the rest, trying to tell me about my own country!!!  


If you know so much about your knowledge about you own country, you didnít even know the North, and West British are a different ethnic group from the south? huh.gif
And if I called you an Afghan would you correct not me? Iím simply pointing out Iím not English, the same as someone from Sweden etc would do so if you miscorrectly said they were English. In your mind that equates to claiming Iím a cut above the rest, well youíre the only one with that mentality my friend rolleyes.gif


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thanks for the laughs tal!!


Laughs is it from Mrs. Maturity?  huh.gif Funny, I thought this thread lost its humour the same time as the ugliness seeped into everyone's tone.

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." -Plato

#24    alis

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 03:03 AM

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Laughs is it from Mrs. Maturity?  Funny, I thought this thread lost its humour the same time as the ugliness seeped into everyone's tone.


well my tone will turn ugly when someone says the ME are idiots for the way they treat women and statements saying that freedom to express your religion wherever (as long as your not a muslim in a synagogue, or a jew in a temple etc) accordingly should be banished.  saying that the ME are idiots for the way they treat women is an ignorant generalization. I could say that westerners are idiots for pushing their parents into the many thousands of nursing homes in the west, but it would be an offensive generalized statement which i think would anger quite a few who actually physically care for their elder generations and cause many inflamed responses from the western population.





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#25    Fluffybunny

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 03:07 AM

I am going to leave this thread open, but I am asking for everyone to remain civil in this discussion.

I do not want name calling, sarcasm, or any bashing.

Please be respectful of each other.

Edited by Fluffybunny, 27 October 2004 - 03:34 AM.

Too many people on both sides of the spectrum have fallen into this mentality that a full one half of the country are the enemy for having different beliefs...in a country based on freedom of expression. It is this infighting that allows the focus to be taken away from "we the people" being able to watch, and have control over government corruption and ineptitude that is running rampant in our leadership.

People should be working towards fixing problems, not creating them.

#26    Lottie

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 04:36 PM

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I could say that westerners are idiots for pushing their parents into the many thousands of nursing homes in the west, but it would be an offensive generalized statement which i think would anger quite a few who actually physically care for their elder generations and cause many inflamed responses from the western population.


But Alis, you have already done this. In your words you have already made "An offensive generalisation statement" about the treatment of the elderly.


#27    alis

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 04:41 PM

did i say the west (including my mother), were a bunch of idiots, or bunch of anything else? i dont think so, did i say it was all westerners??? you obviously dont get offended when someone calls your people a bunch of idiots otherwise you could understand why i am deeply insulted by that ignorant generalisation.

Edited by alis, 27 October 2004 - 04:43 PM.

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#28    Lottie

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 05:01 PM

QUOTE(alis @ Oct 27 2004, 05:41 PM)
did i say the west (including my mother), were a bunch of idiots, or bunch of anything else? i dont think so, did i say it was all westerners??? you obviously dont get offended when someone calls your people a bunch of idiots otherwise you could understand why i am deeply insulted by that ignorant generalisation.

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I have never called anyone an Idiot Alis, in fact I don't think anyone has used the term idiot in this thread. However, you have in three threads including this one resulted to name calling. And in your words you have already made "An offensive generalisation statement" about the treatment of the elderly in the UK which is indeed a huge genralistaion considering the care of our Elderly in this country is actually very good apart from one or two cases that ended up in court anyway.


#29    Lottie

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 05:04 PM

QUOTE
you obviously dont get offended when someone calls your people a bunch of idiots otherwise you could understand why i am deeply insulted by that ignorant generalisation.


No I don't get offended the reason being that anyone who would say something like 'a bunch of idiots' or result to name calling as a way to try to justify themselves is someone who I could not take seriously anyway.

Edited by Lottie, 27 October 2004 - 05:05 PM.


#30    alis

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Posted 27 October 2004 - 05:11 PM

save it lottie, if you cant understand why someone would be angry with a remark such as 'bunch of idiots' then im not going to waste my time trying to see your point of view, ok.



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