Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Norquist: Cruz pushed GOP ‘into traffic


  • Please log in to reply
52 replies to this topic

#1    questionmark

questionmark

    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 34,472 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 02 October 2013 - 08:23 PM

Washington Post said:


Grover Norquist is the president of Americans for Tax Reform and the creator of the anti-tax pledge that nearly every Republican in Congress has signed. We spoke on Tuesday about the government shutdown and its consequences for his agenda. A transcript of our conversation, edited for length and clarity, follows.

Read more

Hmmm... looks like, due to the Democrat's unwillingness to have a fight picked on them now the GOP does it all itself... :innocent:

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#2    supervike

supervike

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 5,283 posts
  • Joined:16 May 2007
  • Gender:Male

Posted 02 October 2013 - 08:38 PM

I really hope this backfires on the Republicans.  Not because I have any loyalty to the other guys, but moreso because shenanigans like this should not be tolerated.  Politicians shouldn't behave like children by taking ball away from those that want to play and are following the rules.


#3    Kowalski

Kowalski

    The Original Penguin Conspiracy Theorist

  • Member
  • 4,102 posts
  • Joined:14 Mar 2013
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:* Madgascar *

  • It's All Some Kind Of Wacked Out Conspiracy....

Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:38 PM

View Postsupervike, on 02 October 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

I really hope this backfires on the Republicans.  Not because I have any loyalty to the other guys, but moreso because shenanigans like this should not be tolerated.  Politicians shouldn't behave like children by taking ball away from those that want to play and are following the rules.

The Democrats had to see this coming.... This bill was passed in the dead of night with partisan Democrat support, and Nancy Pelosi said, "We have to pass it to see what's in it?" :td:

It is completely un-Constutional to make people pay for healthcare insurance, or pay a fine, tax. It's just....it's WRONG. You can bet you a$$ if the Republicans had pulled such a stunt (Remember, couple of months back, Texas passed a controversial abortion ban, and Wendy Davis did a filibuster, that was lauded in the mainstream media?) had passed a controvserial bill, the Democrats would be doing the SAME THING. Except the Press would be praising them as "standing up for the constituents". But as it is, the Republicans are being called "Terrorists" and "Anarchy" all because they are representing their contituents.

This isn't a dig at you or anybody, I am just trying to say, if roles were reversed....Well, you get the picture. You can't pass a bill like this, with only support from your party, and the other side just plain loathes it, without some type of backlash.

It's the nature of the two party system....

I remember George Washington saying something, about how bad a two party system is....hmmm...

Edited by Burt Gummer, 02 October 2013 - 09:44 PM.


#4    Startraveler

Startraveler

    Fleet Captain

  • Member
  • 4,492 posts
  • Joined:25 Jun 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New England

  • Knowledge Brings Fear.

Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:31 PM

View PostBurt Gummer, on 02 October 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

You can bet you a$$ if the Republicans had pulled such a stunt (Remember, couple of months back, Texas passed a controversial abortion ban, and Wendy Davis did a filibuster, that was lauded in the mainstream media?) had passed a controvserial bill, the Democrats would be doing the SAME THING.

...except they wouldn't. This isn't a hypothetical, it's what happened when the GOP passed the Medicare drug benefit a decade ago.

In addition to threatening to fire the CMS actuary for estimating how much the bill would cost and getting the Medicare administrator an ethics waiver so his conflicts of interest wouldn't disqualify him from pushing the legislation, the GOP's 3am vote lasted twelve times as long as scheduled because they had to twist arms (bribe?) on the House floor all night.

Quote

You could tell things were far from normal from the moment the Medicare bill was called for a vote in the House of Representatives — at 3:01 a.m. on Saturday, Nov. 22, 2003. [...]"The yeas and nays are ordered," the House chair intoned that morning. "This will be a 15-minute vote."

Almost immediately, 17 House Republicans voted "no." By 3:48 in the morning — almost an hour after the 15-minute vote had been called — 218 members of Congress, a clear majority, had voted against the bill, with 215 in favor.

Sometimes exceptions are made to that 15 minutes. On rare occasions, when the margin of victory is close, a vote might be held open as long as an hour. But there was clearly something different about this bill. [...]

The lobbying on the floor of the House was furious and the vote was being held open longer than has ever happened in modern congressional history. [...]

"Traditionally, the speaker doesn't vote on issues unless it's an issue of enormous moment or extremely close, and the speaker doesn't lobby on votes on the House floor," Ornstein said. "That's the reason you have a majority leader."

On this issue, however, he said, House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., "openly strong-armed members. It's a gross violation of the normal role on the speaker."

Moreover, Hastert was joined on the floor of the House by Secretary Thompson. That Thompson was there "is just an enormous breach of the standards of the House," Ornstein said. [...]

Finally, at 6 a.m. — nearly three hours after the 15-minute vote began — the gavel came down and the triumphant Republican chair announced that the Medicare bill had passed.

Did Democrats then spend years trying to torpedo the law out of spite? Turns out no.

Quote

Unsurprisingly, Republican lawmakers interviewed by POLITICO didn’t talk about hosting educational events or town halls to advertise the benefits [of the Affordable Care Act] as many Democrats plan to do. They won’t do anything that proactive. But they aren’t going to slam down the phone if a constituent wants to know how to get to the right website or phone number. They’ll help, just like they do when constituents ask about Social Security or Medicare.

It’s a far more muted approach than the one Democrats took in 2006, when the Medicare Part D prescription drug benefit kicked in with a dizzying menu of choices that confused seniors. Many Democrats who opposed the Medicare law enacted under former President George W. Bush left their political sentiments in Washington and went back home to teach their constituents about the benefits, which include subsidies for low-income seniors.



#5    Kowalski

Kowalski

    The Original Penguin Conspiracy Theorist

  • Member
  • 4,102 posts
  • Joined:14 Mar 2013
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:* Madgascar *

  • It's All Some Kind Of Wacked Out Conspiracy....

Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:38 PM

View PostStartraveler, on 02 October 2013 - 10:31 PM, said:

...except they wouldn't. This isn't a hypothetical, it's what happened when the GOP passed the Medicare drug benefit a decade ago.

In addition to threatening to fire the CMS actuary for estimating how much the bill would cost and getting the Medicare administrator an ethics waiver so his conflicts of interest wouldn't disqualify him from pushing the legislation, the GOP's 3am vote lasted twelve times as long as scheduled because they had to twist arms (bribe?) on the House floor all night.


Did Democrats then spend years trying to torpedo the law out of spite? Turns out no.

Isn't Medicare going to run dry in 2024?

Quote



The new Medicare trustees report says the trust fund is now likely to run out of money in 2024, five years earlier than predicted last year.
The reason, according to CMS, is that the economic recovery has been slower than expected — making tax revenues come in more slowly.


Read more: http://www.politico....l#ixzz2gbvepbSD


I really wouldn't compare Obamacare to Medicare.... Both are about to bankrupt this country....

As it stands right now, me and my husband will have no Social Security to stand on, because it will be gone. So maybe it's a good thing the elderly will be on it. They can get denied care by some bureaucrats because it's cheaper than to save them, so that is less people taking money out of Social Security....I know, that's bad, and I think it's awful but that's the way I see it. I also worry about my medical records ending up in the wrong hands as well.....

Edited by Burt Gummer, 02 October 2013 - 11:45 PM.


#6    ninjadude

ninjadude

    Seeker of truths

  • Member
  • 10,954 posts
  • Joined:11 Sep 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Illinois

  • "dirt collects at the interfaces"

Posted 03 October 2013 - 01:16 AM

View PostBurt Gummer, on 02 October 2013 - 11:38 PM, said:

As it stands right now, me and my husband will have no Social Security to stand on, because it will be gone.

where in the world would you get that incorrect idea? oh wait - the conservamedia.

"Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now!""
- Friedrich Nietzsche

#7    Leonardo

Leonardo

    Awake

  • Member
  • 14,903 posts
  • Joined:20 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

  • Hell is a guilty conscience

Posted 03 October 2013 - 08:52 AM

View PostBurt Gummer, on 02 October 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

The Democrats had to see this coming.... This bill was passed in the dead of night with partisan Democrat support, and Nancy Pelosi said, "We have to pass it to see what's in it?" :td:

It is completely un-Constutional to make people pay for healthcare insurance, or pay a fine, tax. It's just....it's WRONG. You can bet you a$$ if the Republicans had pulled such a stunt (Remember, couple of months back, Texas passed a controversial abortion ban, and Wendy Davis did a filibuster, that was lauded in the mainstream media?) had passed a controvserial bill, the Democrats would be doing the SAME THING. Except the Press would be praising them as "standing up for the constituents". But as it is, the Republicans are being called "Terrorists" and "Anarchy" all because they are representing their contituents.

This isn't a dig at you or anybody, I am just trying to say, if roles were reversed....Well, you get the picture. You can't pass a bill like this, with only support from your party, and the other side just plain loathes it, without some type of backlash.

It's the nature of the two party system....

I remember George Washington saying something, about how bad a two party system is....hmmm...

This is nothing to do with the "two-party system", this is about a faction within the Republicans making their play for total control of the Party line. They want Boehner out, as he is seen as too willing to compromise and Cruz is being set to either take his place, or being lined up as the candidate for 2016.

This is about pushing the 'hard-line' message. This isn't about Republicans vs Democrats, it's about Republicans vs Republicans.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#8    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 12,586 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

  • I dunno --

Posted 03 October 2013 - 09:14 AM

View Postninjadude, on 03 October 2013 - 01:16 AM, said:

where in the world would you get that incorrect idea? oh wait - the conservamedia.
Sooner or later every Ponzi scheme must collapse.  The only way this one will be rescued is if general revenues are brought in to keep it going; that will depend on the politics of the day.


#9    preacherman76

preacherman76

    Humble Servent

  • Member
  • 10,621 posts
  • Joined:16 Jul 2007
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Parts Unknown

Posted 03 October 2013 - 10:46 AM

View PostLeonardo, on 03 October 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

This is nothing to do with the "two-party system", this is about a faction within the Republicans making their play for total control of the Party line. They want Boehner out, as he is seen as too willing to compromise and Cruz is being set to either take his place, or being lined up as the candidate for 2016.

This is about pushing the 'hard-line' message. This isn't about Republicans vs Democrats, it's about Republicans vs Republicans.

You are right in a way. What this is really about is having the people's will actualy represented. Cruz should do nothing less then represent the people who got him the job. Everyday more and more people see this bill for what it is, the final nail in our economic coffin. It should be met with full resistance.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#10    Jeremiah65

Jeremiah65

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,790 posts
  • Joined:25 Jun 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The mists at the edge of your dreams...

  • "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle

Posted 03 October 2013 - 12:36 PM

What made the Cruz "waste of time" talk look so bad to the people is that there are a whole handful of other things that "we the people" hold higher in priority.

Obamacare could be made workable and affordable with a series of amendments.  It's not going to go away as long as there is a democrat controlled senate and white house.  Fix it another way, or...just gut it and nut it through amendments...either way...trying to nullify it or repeal it at this stage is a monstrous circle jerk that is serving no one...well...except the d-bags trying to stir up their voting block....nothing is going to get fixed this way.

Cruz had the opportunity to spend 21 hours talking about job creation, commerce and economy...but instead, he droned on and on about Obamacare and Dr. Seuss...he looked like an idiot when so many other things are more important to most people right now.

I like Ted Cruz...more or less anyway.  I like Rand Paul....neither of them are my "ideal" candidate/representative...but they both have some good ideas and do seem concerned with freedoms and the Constitution/Bill of Rights.  They just go about doing things in an effed up way...in my opinion.

Did Cruz give the whole party a black eye?  Yeah....he did.  A representative that was actually concerned about their constituency would address the real concerns of the people...things like jobs, retirement, commerce....infrastructure....etc...etc...etc.  Obamacare is just the "hot topic" and the grandstanding on it is not accomplishing anything real or tangible...and those that drone on and on about it (and try to repeal it nearly 50 times) look completely out of touch with the people they represent.

Just my opinion...

ETA:

The real problem with addressing the problems in Obamacare through a series of amendments is....wait for it....it would require the Congressmen and women to actually read it....

Edited by Jeremiah65, 03 October 2013 - 12:41 PM.

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

Posted Image

#11    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 12,586 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

  • I dunno --

Posted 03 October 2013 - 12:38 PM

I think Cruz was lucky that almost no one actually watched his performance: all they saw was a few excerpts.


#12    Kowalski

Kowalski

    The Original Penguin Conspiracy Theorist

  • Member
  • 4,102 posts
  • Joined:14 Mar 2013
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:* Madgascar *

  • It's All Some Kind Of Wacked Out Conspiracy....

Posted 03 October 2013 - 01:20 PM

View PostJeremiah65, on 03 October 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

What made the Cruz "waste of time" talk look so bad to the people is that there are a whole handful of other things that "we the people" hold higher in priority.

Obamacare could be made workable and affordable with a series of amendments.  It's not going to go away as long as there is a democrat controlled senate and white house.  Fix it another way, or...just gut it and nut it through amendments...either way...trying to nullify it or repeal it at this stage is a monstrous circle jerk that is serving no one...well...except the d-bags trying to stir up their voting block....nothing is going to get fixed this way.

Cruz had the opportunity to spend 21 hours talking about job creation, commerce and economy...but instead, he droned on and on about Obamacare and Dr. Seuss...he looked like an idiot when so many other things are more important to most people right now.

I like Ted Cruz...more or less anyway.  I like Rand Paul....neither of them are my "ideal" candidate/representative...but they both have some good ideas and do seem concerned with freedoms and the Constitution/Bill of Rights.  They just go about doing things in an effed up way...in my opinion.

Did Cruz give the whole party a black eye?  Yeah....he did.  A representative that was actually concerned about their constituency would address the real concerns of the people...things like jobs, retirement, commerce....infrastructure....etc...etc...etc.  Obamacare is just the "hot topic" and the grandstanding on it is not accomplishing anything real or tangible...and those that drone on and on about it (and try to repeal it nearly 50 times) look completely out of touch with the people they represent.

Just my opinion...

ETA:

The real problem with addressing the problems in Obamacare through a series of amendments is....wait for it....it would require the Congressmen and women to actually read it....

Can they read?? LOL

But your right. Best thing to do would be to amend this thing a few times, and make it less complicated, more affordable, etc.

Edited by Burt Gummer, 03 October 2013 - 01:22 PM.


#13    preacherman76

preacherman76

    Humble Servent

  • Member
  • 10,621 posts
  • Joined:16 Jul 2007
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Parts Unknown

Posted 03 October 2013 - 02:08 PM

View PostJeremiah65, on 03 October 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

What made the Cruz "waste of time" talk look so bad to the people is that there are a whole handful of other things that "we the people" hold higher in priority.

Obamacare could be made workable and affordable with a series of amendments.  It's not going to go away as long as there is a democrat controlled senate and white house.  Fix it another way, or...just gut it and nut it through amendments...either way...trying to nullify it or repeal it at this stage is a monstrous circle jerk that is serving no one...well...except the d-bags trying to stir up their voting block....nothing is going to get fixed this way.

Cruz had the opportunity to spend 21 hours talking about job creation, commerce and economy...but instead, he droned on and on about Obamacare and Dr. Seuss...he looked like an idiot when so many other things are more important to most people right now.

I like Ted Cruz...more or less anyway.  I like Rand Paul....neither of them are my "ideal" candidate/representative...but they both have some good ideas and do seem concerned with freedoms and the Constitution/Bill of Rights.  They just go about doing things in an effed up way...in my opinion.

Did Cruz give the whole party a black eye?  Yeah....he did.  A representative that was actually concerned about their constituency would address the real concerns of the people...things like jobs, retirement, commerce....infrastructure....etc...etc...etc.  Obamacare is just the "hot topic" and the grandstanding on it is not accomplishing anything real or tangible...and those that drone on and on about it (and try to repeal it nearly 50 times) look completely out of touch with the people they represent.

Just my opinion...

ETA:

The real problem with addressing the problems in Obamacare through a series of amendments is....wait for it....it would require the Congressmen and women to actually read it....

I guess I can see how some folks might come to this conclusion. Personaly the "affordable health care" legislation pushed me right outta the market. So to me, and folks that find themselfs in this same situation, there isnt a bigger priority.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#14    Jeremiah65

Jeremiah65

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,790 posts
  • Joined:25 Jun 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The mists at the edge of your dreams...

  • "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle

Posted 03 October 2013 - 02:21 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 03 October 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

I guess I can see how some folks might come to this conclusion. Personaly the "affordable health care" legislation pushed me right outta the market. So to me, and folks that find themselfs in this same situation, there isnt a bigger priority.

I can see your position.  My point was that in the grand scheme...jobs, economy and opportunity are the top of the list.  If you have a decent paying job, you will either have an employee insurance option or can afford to buy personal coverage.  The problem I see with this "purchase at the end of a gun barrel" is that it is taking a chunk of money out of people's pockets that could be used to stimulate growth...purchasing products that in turn create demand and growth.

This "forced purchase" does not create manufacturing demand...it props up the insurance providers and their backers...the securities of Wall Street (this is a shining example...in my opinion....of Crony Capitalism).  

The common markets will see little benefit from this as now people will have hundreds of dollars a month less to spend on other things.  Forget that new car or new fridge, TV, vacation...etc...etc...etc.  When your premium is the equivalent to a car payment every month....does no one else see the downside of this to the economy overall?...maybe I am just jaded....

Edited by Jeremiah65, 03 October 2013 - 02:23 PM.

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

Posted Image

#15    spartan max2

spartan max2

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,242 posts
  • Joined:15 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ohio

  • There's nothing so absurd that if you repeat it often enough

Posted 03 October 2013 - 02:23 PM

Since the governments shutdown can I stop paying taxes :D

" I imagine that the intellegent people are the ones so intellegent that they dont even need or want to look "intellegent" anymore".
Criss Jami




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users