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Alien Abductees Have Nothing To Gain?


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#1    1963

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Posted 05 October 2013 - 08:44 PM

Alien Abductees Have Nothing To Gain By Going Public?

Hi all,

This will not be a very popular thread with 'some of members here', but I came across this article [and video] whilst browsing for 'the good stuff' , and thought that I had to post and get opinions on something that really bothers me about the 'Alien Abduction' section of the ETH!
The article concerns the second annual 'Alien Abduction Experiencers Conference'...at which an assortment of 'the more famous of these claimants' [Weiner, Foltz,Travis Walton, Debbie Kauble etc] gather together and share their experiences with a 'Paying Audience'...

http://www.experienc..._2_Schedule.pdf



By the way, I tried to find out just what it would cost me to go and see these 'Experiencers reliving their experiences' [for the billionth time], and failed to find more than a phone number to "book a premier-package" ,..and this 'begging-for-donations-site associated with the conference.... http://www.experienc...k.yolasite.com/


....And in this is the article that I chanced upon, in which 'Jim Weiner and Chuck Foltz', ..two of the four guys [abductees?] from the widely publicised 1976 Allagash incident gave an interview with Matt Byrne of "The Portland Press Herald" , the phrase "What do we have to gain from making the story up?" was emphasised by the alleged abductees!..which really personally wrankles me in so many of these cases!...Because the first thing that enters my mind is that i'm almost certain that these guys...[who have been on the ubiquitous UFO/ETH symposium/conference/lecture circuit for as long as I can remember,]..are not getting their percentage of the entrance and following video fees!...not to mention that I really cannot envisage that these guys [and all of the other 'experiencers'] give so many newspaper/magazine and radio interviews about their 'experiences ['oh! and don't forget the 'Book Royalties'] free of charge!...can you?



http://www.presshera...ml?pagenum=full


...So yeah guys!...I can think of something that you could gain by making the story up!...

....to sum up, I'm by no means declaring that 'All' alien abduction cases are false!...or that all alien abductees are making it up for cash or fame! [I know that there are members right here at UM that I consider friends and straight-up sort of characters, that are totally convinced that they have had , or still having the experience,...and am absolutely not casting aspersions on 'their' experiences or 'their' integrity....but it just irks me somewhat, when these 'high-profile' and dare I say 'professional' lecturers/speakers declare that they go on the endless conference tours and their 'experiences' purely for our benefits ...and for themselves... 'Nothing At All!'


....Is it just me, or does anyone else think that statements like "What we have to gain from making the story up?"...not only tries to insult our intelligence, but also weakens the validity of their claims and is a strong indication toward one's discernment thereof, in an 'Alleged Alien Abduction Claim'....and the guys doing the claiming?



Cheers.


"The discovery of truth is prevented more effectively not by the false
appearance of things present and which mislead into error, not directly
by weakness of the reasoning powers, but by preconceived opinion, by
prejudice." - Schopenhauer



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#2    seeder

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 12:07 PM

I have a major hard time believing abduction tales, I just dont get it at all. I mean, if we are to believe aliens are studying the human race, then perhaps as we ourselves study animals on earth, you typically only need the one sample. As with our limited (while ever increasing) medical knowledge today, we can simply take non intrusive samples like dna, blood, hair saliva etc, and build a genetic map of an animal or human - which also covers ancestral features

And the probing? What does that achieve?   Again, man has xray, ultrasound etc to look inside people, CT scans to show brain functions etc, ECG to show blood pressure and heart activity..  yet advanced aliens need to use a phallic shaped probe?  OK admittedly one or two stories do say the folks were 'scanned'... but many dont.

If and when we ever make intergalactic travel ourselves, well by then even our coolest tech today, will have been seriously overhauled, improved, miniaturised etc etc, heck we may even have a tri-corder type device we just point at a person and get a fully detaled account of every systems functions in their bodies. No need for a probe up your wotsit either!!

But ALIEUNZ...super dooper advanced aliens, flit about at night, interfering with people and animals? Sorry but I cant believe any of it, I just cant

Just my opinion of course

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#3    zoser

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 12:17 PM

I think it is necessary to divide these cases into two:

1) Cases where the people are lucid.  Travis Walton being an example and in this case the event was well witnessed.  At least as far as the presence of the craft and his immobilisation were concerned.  Also cases like Antonio Villas Boas although this case was not witnessed.  No suggestion of dreams or out of conscious states being involved.  The Pascagoula case would I believe fit in here.

2) The bed time abduction.  Paralysis, Grey's at the foot of the bed. blinding lights, levitation through walls, surgical testing, reproductive experimentation.  IN other words the type of event studied by Bud Hopkins, Carla Turner, John Mack and others.

Now of the two, I certainly find the second group of abductions to be more difficult.  I don't reject them, it's just that I find them more bizarre, and I simply cannot relate to it.  I have no difficulty however with category 1).

Some cases may be ambiguous in terms of which category they belong to.  What abut the Allagash Incident?  It didn't take place during sleep hours, yet there is implication of some memory loss or change in consciousness.   There may well be others like this.

Edited by zoser, 06 October 2013 - 12:18 PM.

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#4    Hawkin

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 12:35 PM

View Post1963, on 05 October 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:

Alien Abductees Have Nothing To Gain By Going Public?

Hi all,

This will not be a very popular thread with 'some of members here', but I came across this article [and video] whilst browsing for 'the good stuff' , and thought that I had to post and get opinions on something that really bothers me about the 'Alien Abduction' section of the ETH!
The article concerns the second annual 'Alien Abduction Experiencers Conference'...at which an assortment of 'the more famous of these claimants' [Weiner, Foltz,Travis Walton, Debbie Kauble etc] gather together and share their experiences with a 'Paying Audience'...

http://www.experienc..._2_Schedule.pdf



By the way, I tried to find out just what it would cost me to go and see these 'Experiencers reliving their experiences' [for the billionth time], and failed to find more than a phone number to "book a premier-package" ,..and this 'begging-for-donations-site associated with the conference.... http://www.experienc...k.yolasite.com/


....And in this is the article that I chanced upon, in which 'Jim Weiner and Chuck Foltz', ..two of the four guys [abductees?] from the widely publicised 1976 Allagash incident gave an interview with Matt Byrne of "The Portland Press Herald" , the phrase "What do we have to gain from making the story up?" was emphasised by the alleged abductees!..which really personally wrankles me in so many of these cases!...Because the first thing that enters my mind is that i'm almost certain that these guys...[who have been on the ubiquitous UFO/ETH symposium/conference/lecture circuit for as long as I can remember,]..are not getting their percentage of the entrance and following video fees!...not to mention that I really cannot envisage that these guys [and all of the other 'experiencers'] give so many newspaper/magazine and radio interviews about their 'experiences ['oh! and don't forget the 'Book Royalties'] free of charge!...can you?



http://www.presshera...ml?pagenum=full


...So yeah guys!...I can think of something that you could gain by making the story up!...

....to sum up, I'm by no means declaring that 'All' alien abduction cases are false!...or that all alien abductees are making it up for cash or fame! [I know that there are members right here at UM that I consider friends and straight-up sort of characters, that are totally convinced that they have had , or still having the experience,...and am absolutely not casting aspersions on 'their' experiences or 'their' integrity....but it just irks me somewhat, when these 'high-profile' and dare I say 'professional' lecturers/speakers declare that they go on the endless conference tours and their 'experiences' purely for our benefits ...and for themselves... 'Nothing At All!'


....Is it just me, or does anyone else think that statements like "What we have to gain from making the story up?"...not only tries to insult our intelligence, but also weakens the validity of their claims and is a strong indication toward one's discernment thereof, in an 'Alleged Alien Abduction Claim'....and the guys doing the claiming?



Cheers.


"The discovery of truth is prevented more effectively not by the false
appearance of things present and which mislead into error, not directly
by weakness of the reasoning powers, but by preconceived opinion, by
prejudice." - Schopenhauer



GORT...KLAATU BARADA NIKTO.


I'm sure there are people out there that are capitalizing on the UFO/Abduction Phenomena and basically lying to gain fortune.
Just as there are those that capitalize by saying that the Apollo Moon Landings are a hoax even if there's concrete proof man landed.
It makes it look bad for those that are being sincere and aren't gaining a cent.

   It's good to have some skepticism so you won't be gullible & naïve.
But to much skepticism can make you narrow minded to extraordinary possibilities.

#5    willowdreams

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 01:57 PM

if you can travel through space, and unless you are very very long lived.. basically give birth and rear younglings in space, to travel to visit other planets, then i promise you this

if you are abducted by aliens (which they probably would not need to do), you would not experience anything 'norm'.

They would be so far advanced then we are that we would probably not even recognize the medical techniques they are using.

Heck, they could probably lay us on a table and look at us through a peice of clear glass and it could show them all they need to know about us.

If our urine tells US so much, can you guess how much it would tell an extremely advanced race?

abducties get more then money and such, we all know this. They get attention and as we all know, even negative attention is attention.

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#6    Rafterman

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 02:32 PM

View Postzoser, on 06 October 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

I think it is necessary to divide these cases into two:

1) Cases where the people are lucid.  Travis Walton being an example and in this case the event was well witnessed.  At least as far as the presence of the craft and his immobilisation were concerned.  Also cases like Antonio Villas Boas although this case was not witnessed.  No suggestion of dreams or out of conscious states being involved.  The Pascagoula case would I believe fit in here.

2) The bed time abduction.  Paralysis, Grey's at the foot of the bed. blinding lights, levitation through walls, surgical testing, reproductive experimentation.  IN other words the type of event studied by Bud Hopkins, Carla Turner, John Mack and others.

Now of the two, I certainly find the second group of abductions to be more difficult.  I don't reject them, it's just that I find them more bizarre, and I simply cannot relate to it.  I have no difficulty however with category 1).

Some cases may be ambiguous in terms of which category they belong to.  What abut the Allagash Incident?  It didn't take place during sleep hours, yet there is implication of some memory loss or change in consciousness.   There may well be others like this.

Let me help edit that for you:

Cases where people are CON ARTISTS.

Cases where people are experiencing sleep paralysis.

You're welcome.

"For me, it is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
                                                                                                                                           - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World:  Science as a Candle in the Dark

#7    zoser

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 05:01 PM

View PostRafterman, on 06 October 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

Let me help edit that for you:

Cases where people are CON ARTISTS.

Cases where people are experiencing sleep paralysis.

You're welcome.

Let me help you in return:

Cynicism is a disease which always assumes the worst possible case in things.  

Your welcome.

:tu:

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#8    zoser

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 05:50 PM

View Post1963, on 05 October 2013 - 08:44 PM, said:



....And in this is the article that I chanced upon, in which 'Jim Weiner and Chuck Foltz', ..two of the four guys [abductees?] from the widely publicised 1976 Allagash incident gave an interview with Matt Byrne of "The Portland Press Herald" , the phrase "What do we have to gain from making the story up?" was emphasised by the alleged abductees!..which really personally wrankles me in so many of these cases!...Because the first thing that enters my mind is that i'm almost certain that these guys...[who have been on the ubiquitous UFO/ETH symposium/conference/lecture circuit for as long as I can remember,]..are not getting their percentage of the entrance and following video fees!...not to mention that I really cannot envisage that these guys [and all of the other 'experiencers'] give so many newspaper/magazine and radio interviews about their 'experiences ['oh! and don't forget the 'Book Royalties'] free of charge!...can you?


The Allagash incident has always fascinated me.  It does fit nicely into package 2) in one respect because according to the testimonies all four lost consciousness, at the arrival of the craft, and woke up to find that the raging fire was embering, and time had passed.


The problem is that the testimonies are consistent.   I can't recall now whether or not all 4 told the same tale, but the ones that did confirmed each other's story.  What 'muddie's' the water a little is that the account came out apparently under hypnosis; which suggests that the case has more in common with group 2).  Yet the case did not happen during sleep.  Were they anaesthetised?


Compare with Calvin Parker and Charles Higson where they were literally seized wile fishing.  


In both cases, as far as I can tell, the experience left the victims traumatised for some time.  Did they gain anything?  I don't believe so.  Would they have preferred it to not have happened?  Again I believe the answer to be yes.


That says very much indeed.



Edited by zoser, 06 October 2013 - 05:51 PM.

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#9    DONTEATUS

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 07:07 PM

Until we get an Abductee that Grabs A ship Manual or Spark pulg that can be proven to be E.T Then Its all what Movies,and Books are made of ! :tu:

This is a Work in Progress!

#10    Skep B

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 07:09 PM

View Postzoser, on 06 October 2013 - 05:01 PM, said:

Let me help you in return:

Cynicism is a disease which always assumes the worst possible case in things.  

Your welcome.

:tu:

disease....handy tool, depends on which side of it you're setting on

When you know what a man loves, you know what can kill him


#11    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 07:28 PM

View PostRafterman, on 06 October 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

Let me help edit that for you:

Cases where people are CON ARTISTS.

Cases where people are experiencing sleep paralysis.

You're welcome.

:yes:

“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
― Groucho Marx

#12    zoser

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 07:38 PM

Just watching a fairly recent doc on the subject.

Still into part 1 but interestingly Stan Friedman has no doubts about Travis Walton and he bases his views mainly on the witnesses and polygraph data (Remember Friedman is on record as being skeptical about Philip J Corso and Bob Lazar).

UFO Files - Alien Abductions: The Evidence - Part 1 of 5


Interesting to hear what the skeptics have to say on the doc.  They seem to attribute everything to sleep paralysis, however that really is totally inadequate.  It may be a small part of the puzzle, but clearly something else is going on here.

Some information on physical evidence (viewer discretion advised).

http://www.noufors.c...tion_cases.html

Now back to part 2.

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#13    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 07:39 PM

Have You Ever Noticed That No Good Looking People Believe in Alien Abductions?


This was the question asked in the University of Kalamazoo lecture theatre by noted astronomer Dr. Laban Shrewsbury last Friday evening. Dr. Shrewsbury, whose latest book, "Use Your Head and Stop Being Such a Loser, You Loser," is currently on the New York Times bestseller list, was brought to Michigan by the Wicked Scholar's Society as part of their "Let's Debunk Everything and Make People Look Stupid" lecture series.

Dr. Shewsbury is the head of the SETI (Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence) project at the Mount Kadath Observatory in Arkham Mass. and has spent the last 35 years searching for proof of life elsewhere in the universe. "The possibility that life exists somewhere else in the universe is an intriguing probability. When you consider that there are more stars in space than there are grains of sand in all of the beaches in all of the world, it seems impossible that life would not have evolved elsewhere. In fact, we are now quite certain that many of the basic building blocks of all living things on earth such as certain amino acids and elements, did not occur naturally on earth but were deposited here by comets and other space debris."

When queried about the apparent contradiction between his belief in extra terrestrial life and his cheerful ridiculing of people who believe in alien abductions, Dr. Shrewsbury had this to say to Wicked Scholar editor Eric Wolf: "I obviously believe whole heartedly in the existence of other life forms beyond earth. I've devoted 35 years of my life to the search. What I find absolutely amazing is the number of people who believe totally and completely that intelligent aliens routinely visit the earth and carry out experiments on human subjects. Over the past several decades, I have been contacted by literally hundreds of people who sincerely believe that they have been the victim of an alien abduction.

I've noticed some common threads that bind most if not all of these individuals together. First of all, most of the people who report that they have been abducted are not at all attractive and many are downright ugly. Secondly, almost to a person they are uneducated and quite stupid. Intelligent, critical thinkers, of course, instantly recognize abduction stories for what they really are; the adolescent fantasies of pathetic, fat, stupid, people with empty, meaningless lives. Many of them live below the poverty level and long to escape from an unbearable existence. They fervently wish they could be a Han Solo, a Captain Kirk, a beautiful and powerful queen on a distant planet. Their conception of what aliens look like clearly reflects what they have been conditioned to believe aliens would look like. For example, take grey aliens (grey aliens are anthropoid, hairless, with big black eyes and grey skin. They are often described as looking like embryonic humans ed. note). The statistical odds of creatures that look even remotely human evolving elsewhere in the universe is so astronomically small that it is pointless to even consider the possibility. That we look the way we do is the result of millions of chance occurrences which have taken place since the beginning of time. Had the Great Age of Dinosaurs not ended 50 million years ago, the higher mammals including humans could never have evolved.

The whole concept of the grey alien is taken right out of a 1950's science fiction movie. Aliens had to be different enough from humans to be threatening and alien, but they could not be so different that the special effects and makeup would blow the budget for the movie. So, producers would dress an actor in a shiny suit, put something over their head and face and voila, you have an instant alien. As special effects improved, the 50's alien was gradually refined to look like the image we see week after week on the "X Files."

Today aliens are a cottage industry. People have realized that extraterrestrials mean money. Blatantly fake alien autopsies draw millions of viewers when they are shown on television. Every time you turn on the television the same old dubious evidence for the existence of aliens is trotted our for the brain dead masses who don't realize that the crap they are lapping up was scientifically refuted 30 years ago. It is no coincidence that many of the so called abductees who claim to have been visited by grey aliens watched a lot of science fiction movies as children. The image of the huge headed alien with gleaming black eyes has become a part of our popular culture. If you ask virtually anyone in the world what an alien looks like, they will probably describe what is popularly known as a grey.

The grey alien image is used on everything from snow boards to record labels, to cereal boxes. If one were to develop a paranoia about alien visitors, they would undoubtedly describe the appearance of their tormentors as, surprise, surprise, a grey alien. Even more asinine than the grey alien is the nordic type (nordic types look like Conan for lack of a better comparison. Men are heavily muscled and have long flowing hair. Women are beautiful and have perfect bodies ed. note). It is understandable that homely and insecure individuals would fantasize about being abducted by members of a gorgeous race of aliens, particularly when the abduction experience often involves sexual experimentation and inter- species breeding.

The rich, successful, well educated, and good looking do not believe in alien abductions unless they are mentally ill. Several years ago I conducted a survey of people who believed they had been the victim of an alien abduction to create a profile of the typical abductee. Oddly enough, there is a very strong correlation between the type of vehicle a person drives and whether or not they believe in alien abductions. Seventy three percent of people who have reported an abduction incident drive a pick-up truck that is more than 10 years old. Ninety eight percent of the pick-ups have 2 or more body panels that are different colours. The favourite recreational activity or sport of ninety two percent of the people who reported they had been abducted was watching professional wrestling, hunting, and stock car racing. Seventy five percent of abductees live in a mobile home in the southern United States.

As most people who believe in alien abductions are stupid and poorly educated, explaining the realities of physics, biology, chemistry, and astronomy is like trying to describe a jet engine to a chimpanzee. It's a futile activity. I don't even bother explaining the theory of relativity to alien abduction believers as most think it has something to do with incest. That's not to say that I haven't sometimes enjoyed my encounters with alien abductees. Their childlike imaginations and wide eyed wonder at the universe around them and the secrets it holds reminds me of me when I was a child, blissfully unaware of a universe of discovery ahead of me."


Link :   http://wickedscholar...shrewsbury.html

Edited by itsnotoutthere, 06 October 2013 - 07:48 PM.

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#14    zoser

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 07:49 PM

View Postitsnotoutthere, on 06 October 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

Have You Ever Noticed That No Good Looking People Believe in Alien Abductions?


This was the question asked in the University of Kalamazoo lecture theatre by noted astronomer Dr. Laban Shrewsbury last Friday evening. Dr. Shrewsbury, whose latest book, "Use Your Head and Stop Being Such a Loser, You Loser," is currently on the New York Times bestseller list, was brought to Michigan by the Wicked Scholar's Society as part of their "Let's Debunk Everything and Make People Look Stupid" lecture series.



Here's Kelly Cahill abducted in Australia in 1993:

Posted Image

Isn't she gorgeous?


Posted Image


:whistle:

Edited by zoser, 06 October 2013 - 07:54 PM.

Posted Image


#15    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 07:56 PM

View Postzoser, on 06 October 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

Here's Kelly Cahill abducted in Australia in 1993:

Posted Image

Isn't she gorgeous?


Posted Image


:whistle:

Love the casual way you say ...."abducted in Australia in 1993"

Actually i've seen better looking women in my local Tesco, but hey, whatever floats yer boat.

Edited by itsnotoutthere, 06 October 2013 - 08:00 PM.

“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
― Groucho Marx




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