Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Talk about evil


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1    markdohle

markdohle

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,750 posts
  • Joined:21 May 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta area

Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:08 PM

Talk about evil


People often talk about evil in ways that keeps them out of the equation.  When in fact the only way to even begin to understand the problem of evil, is to have some knowledge of ones own involvement in it and deep participation, either through our actions, or our backing away and not doing what should be done.  I often have good reason for what I do, but if what I have done with all my reasons, where done to me, well they would seem cruel and yes evil because of the affect it would have on me.  There are no simple answers for the reality of evil and suffering in this world, but understanding and self-knowledge can lead to some diminishment in how we treat and judge others.  I need mercy for what I have done. Why would I deny that to others?  It I is a struggle, but one well worth dealing with.  

Evil thrives when there is little empathy or compassion.  




#2    Drayno

Drayno

    Draynor's Finest

  • Member
  • 3,707 posts
  • Joined:18 Jan 2008
  • Gender:Male

Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:20 AM

Knowledge is self.

"Let us sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of kings."
- William Shakespeare, Richard II, Act III, Scene II

#3    DeWitz

DeWitz

    DeWitz

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,639 posts
  • Joined:11 Feb 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Niagara Frontier

  • "Follow me, it's in Room 101."
    Clyde P. Fesmire, PhD

Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:01 AM

Although non-Christians will balk, Paul speaks about the paradox of internal/external evil in Romans (7:15ff.). His words are telling. I dislike considering how I support and particiiate in evil just be paying my taxes. . . or waking up in the morning. Thanks for the post--this is important for us to contemplate, whoever we are.

[previously incarnate as 'szentgyorgy']

"Things fall apart. . . it's scientific." - Talking Heads

#4    freetoroam

freetoroam

    Honourary member of the UM asylum

  • Member
  • 7,518 posts
  • Joined:11 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:rivers and canals of England and Wales.

  • If you didn't see it with your own eyes, or hear it with your own ears, don't invent it with your small mind and share it with your big mouth!

Posted 09 October 2013 - 02:12 AM

Understanding the minds of certain people does not make you the same as them.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#5    ReaperS_ParadoX

ReaperS_ParadoX

    “What’s wrong with accepting madness?

  • Member
  • 2,521 posts
  • Joined:29 Jun 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:A really cold region devoid of stars

  • The boundaries which divide Life from Death are at best shadowy and vague. Who shall say where the one ends, and where the other begins?

Posted 09 October 2013 - 07:30 PM

whats evil to one person may not be evil to the next. it just depends on your definition of what evil is

COME WITH ME. OVERWHELMING POWER AND MADNESS AWAIT

THAT IS NOT DEAD WHICH CAN ETERNAL LIE AND WITH STRANGE AEONS EVEN DEATH MAY DIE

#6    Leonardo

Leonardo

    Awake

  • Member
  • 15,562 posts
  • Joined:20 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

  • Hell is a guilty conscience

Posted 09 October 2013 - 08:15 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 08 October 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

Evil thrives when there is little empathy or compassion.  

I would, to a point, disagree - because this assumes evil is always a solitary pursuit - or that empathy and compassion are always good.

It was compassion which drove Christian missionaries to convert millions from their own beliefs - and in doing so they destroyed innocent cultures, families and lives. It was Christian empathy for "the Word of Christ/God", which drove them to slaughter thousands of innocents in various purges and Inquisitions.

Evil can have compassion, and evil can be empathetic. Evil is just the consequence of actions - and those actions can be pure in intent.

Edited by Leonardo, 09 October 2013 - 08:17 PM.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#7    markdohle

markdohle

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,750 posts
  • Joined:21 May 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta area

Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:06 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 09 October 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

I would, to a point, disagree - because this assumes evil is always a solitary pursuit - or that empathy and compassion are always good.

It was compassion which drove Christian missionaries to convert millions from their own beliefs - and in doing so they destroyed innocent cultures, families and lives. It was Christian empathy for "the Word of Christ/God", which drove them to slaughter thousands of innocents in various purges and Inquisitions.

Evil can have compassion, and evil can be empathetic. Evil is just the consequence of actions - and those actions can be pure in intent.



"I often have good reason for what I do, but if what I have done with all my reasons, where done to me, well they would seem cruel and yes evil because of the affect it would have on me.  There are no simple answers for the reality of evil and suffering in this world, but understanding and self-knowledge can lead to some diminishment in how we treat and judge others.  I need mercy for what I have done. Why would I deny that to others?  It I is a struggle, but one well worth dealing with."


How have your participated in bringing evil to the world, I guess that is the main thrust of the statement.  Great evil is done in the name of country, tribe and yes religion, and I would think that adults, who can reason have also done evil.  It is easy to point at others, it takes the attention off of ourselves.  So we have billions of people pointing at someone else.......perhaps few looking inward at themselves.  Though I would guess there are innocents, perhaps you are one of them.  I know of none however, so perhaps that leads to my posting.....in which I include myself, one who has done evil for all the right reasons, accept in how it affected others and how it would do me If it happened to me.

Peace
Mark

Edited by markdohle, 09 October 2013 - 09:09 PM.


#8    Leonardo

Leonardo

    Awake

  • Member
  • 15,562 posts
  • Joined:20 Oct 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

  • Hell is a guilty conscience

Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:11 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 09 October 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

How have your participated in bringing evil to the world, I guess that is the main thrust of the statement.  Great evil is done in the name of country, tribe and yes religion, and I would think that adults, who can reason have also done evil.  It is easy to point at others, it takes the attention off of ourselves.  So we have billions of people pointing at someone else.......perhaps few looking inward at themselves.  Though I would guess there are innocents, perhaps you are one of them.  I know of none however...

There are billions of innocents in the world, Mark. Perhaps not innocent in that they know nothing of evil, but innocent in the sense they are/were innocent of the 'crimes' some have accused them of. Such as the 'crime' of not believing in Jesus, or the 'crime' of using herbal remedies.

Edited by Leonardo, 09 October 2013 - 09:12 PM.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#9    markdohle

markdohle

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,750 posts
  • Joined:21 May 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta area

Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:15 PM

View PostReaperS_ParadoX, on 09 October 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

whats evil to one person may not be evil to the next. it just depends on your definition of what evil is


Well if you got a room full of people from all over the world, from many religions as well as none, and if they were asked to give a list of what they would consider an evil against them or their loved ones I am sure that the list would be similar.  I doubt that anyone would say that for someone to rape their wife would not be evil, or to steal, or to abuse or kill their children would not be evil.  To burn their homes and villages would be considered evil, as well as taking their land, enslaving their children for sexual slavery etc., I can't think of anyone who would say this is not an evil.  The reason the golden rule is so widespread is that it is here where we know what evil is, what we would not want to be done to ourselves, we do not do to another. Evil is not an abstract idea, but a lack of the good, of love, of caring for others as one would want to be cared for.  Religion or faith is not needed to understand this, these are written into the human heart......we have no excuse for the evils we do. .

Edited by markdohle, 09 October 2013 - 09:27 PM.


#10    markdohle

markdohle

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,750 posts
  • Joined:21 May 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta area

Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:19 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 09 October 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

There are billions of innocents in the world, Mark. Perhaps not innocent in that they know nothing of evil, but innocent in the sense they are/were innocent of the 'crimes' some have accused them of. Such as the 'crime' of not believing in Jesus, or the 'crime' of using herbal remedies.

I understand my friend, but again that was not my intent, of course in the past and today there is great injustice in the world, the only way that can change is through each person, from the bottom up.....though that will most likely never happen, however, we are all responsible for our lives, that is what sin is, it points to the fact, not a pleasant one by any means, that our lives have meaning, and how we love and treat others is the most important aspect of our lives.

Peace
mark


#11    White Crane Feather

White Crane Feather

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 11,509 posts
  • Joined:12 Jul 2010
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:California

  • Potter: " is this real or is this in my mind?"

    Dumbledore: " Of course it's in your mind....., but that dosn't mean it's not real."

Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:02 PM

For the first time in history as far as we can tell, there is a creature upon the earth that is capable of rising above the savagery of its nature.  

I think we should embrace this. A little bit of ethics from Socrates tells that a good human is a human that thinks well. We also have the unique trait of thoughtful compassion. In the Socratic tradition of ethics, I think if we do what our species is unique at ( thinking and showing extreme compassion) then we are embracing what it means to be human. Savagery and self seeking is the norm for most other life on earth, we are no different than animals if we behave like them. Not that animals are bad, but they are exercising their unique traits, while we do not acting like them. In some way that makes us beneath them. If humans exercised to its fullest our unique traits Truly thinking  with compassion, I  think we would raise the world and life up to heights that are unimaginable.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#12    ReaperS_ParadoX

ReaperS_ParadoX

    “What’s wrong with accepting madness?

  • Member
  • 2,521 posts
  • Joined:29 Jun 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:A really cold region devoid of stars

  • The boundaries which divide Life from Death are at best shadowy and vague. Who shall say where the one ends, and where the other begins?

Posted 12 October 2013 - 08:03 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 09 October 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

Well if you got a room full of people from all over the world, from many religions as well as none, and if they were asked to give a list of what they would consider an evil against them or their loved ones I am sure that the list would be similar.  I doubt that anyone would say that for someone to rape their wife would not be evil, or to steal, or to abuse or kill their children would not be evil.  To burn their homes and villages would be considered evil, as well as taking their land, enslaving their children for sexual slavery etc., I can't think of anyone who would say this is not an evil.  The reason the golden rule is so widespread is that it is here where we know what evil is, what we would not want to be done to ourselves, we do not do to another. Evil is not an abstract idea, but a lack of the good, of love, of caring for others as one would want to be cared for.  Religion or faith is not needed to understand this, these are written into the human heart......we have no excuse for the evils we do. .

I see what your saying, but keep in mind that the golden rule isnt always on the mind of the person that commits an "evil" act.  Of course no one would want anything to happen to there kids, but look at it from the person commiting the evil act, they may not see it as evil they may see it as a way to get what they want.  Also as far as slavery goes money always triumphs over evil, people will do just about anything to get a buck and slavery is a moneymaker.  As far as the taking the land  goes the person taking it is only thinking about himself and not the people of that land.  Do you think Hernan Cortez during the conquering and killing of the Incas was worried about the golden rule or thought that what he was doing was evil? Do you think Ghenghis Kahn was worried about the golden rule and thought to himself "him maybe me raping and pillaging and conquering is the wrong thing to do?  The strong survive and take advantage of the weak,  thats just the way the world works, Im sorry to say

COME WITH ME. OVERWHELMING POWER AND MADNESS AWAIT

THAT IS NOT DEAD WHICH CAN ETERNAL LIE AND WITH STRANGE AEONS EVEN DEATH MAY DIE

#13    markdohle

markdohle

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,750 posts
  • Joined:21 May 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta area

Posted 12 October 2013 - 10:07 PM

Quote

see what your saying, but keep in mind that the golden rule isnt always on the mind of the person that commits an "evil" act.  Of course no one would want anything to happen to there kids, but look at it from the person commiting the evil act, they may not see it as evil they may see it as a way to get what they want.  Also as far as slavery goes money always triumphs over evil, people will do just about anything to get a buck and slavery is a moneymaker.  As far as the taking the land  goes the person taking it is only thinking about himself and not the people of that land.  Do you think Hernan Cortez during the conquering and killing of the Incas was worried about the golden rule or thought that what he was doing was evil? Do you think Ghenghis Kahn was worried about the golden rule and thought to himself "him maybe me raping and pillaging and conquering is the wrong thing to do?  The strong survive and take advantage of the weak,  thats just the way the world works, Im sorry to say


People don't seek 'evil', they seek something that they think is 'good', and what brings out the evil is what they are willing to do to get it.  In order to believe that there is some kind of objective moral code; one would have to believe in some sort of moral law that was before mankind, in other words 'God".  All the men you mentioned would indeed think it evil if what they did was done to them, in that, again, they have no excuse for their actions.  If done to them, they would scream like their victims.

If there is no God, then yes, it is up to each to decide what is evil or good.  I would think if Dawkins was taking to a friend who was also an atheist about his take or good and evil, also on our duty of override ones evolution, his friend a fellow atheist could easily disagree and Dawkins could say nothing about it.  The only wrong would be to get caught.  Atheism when thought through comes to some conclusions that would actually make culture impossible without some sort of ruler that would take it on his or herself to decide what is right or wrong....North Korea comes to mind for instances.

Sin means that our lives have meaning and that we actually do pay for the evil we do,in other words there is an after life.....even if mercy is sought, some sort of inner suffering would be needed to heal the soul, this perhaps comes from reliving all the evil that one has done in the first person.  As Jesus said, "all will be made known.  Mercy comes from insight, it is not something one would ask for on any deep level unless some inner light revelaed it leading to the seeking of mercy.  Evil makes us monsters, that is a state I believe that could continue for an eternity.  Only infinite mercy can heal such a state.

In a world where there is no good or evil, then justice is also an illusion and can never be reached.  The problem is this, Justice is a deep need of the soul, we seek justice in many ways, to understand that men who do evil things do so with impunity is perhaps deadly to any future for mankind.  If there was no afterlife, it would not be so bad; it is just a dreamless non-state-of being....so to kill someone who has done great evil, like Hitler for instance is not justice at all, but an escape into nothingness.

Believers do great evil because they are seeking some higher good, they become monsters as well, our choices create us, it is grace that heals and renews us.

Edited by markdohle, 12 October 2013 - 10:14 PM.


#14    ReaperS_ParadoX

ReaperS_ParadoX

    “What’s wrong with accepting madness?

  • Member
  • 2,521 posts
  • Joined:29 Jun 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:A really cold region devoid of stars

  • The boundaries which divide Life from Death are at best shadowy and vague. Who shall say where the one ends, and where the other begins?

Posted 12 October 2013 - 11:25 PM

I believe there is a God, and a Devil. Although I don't believe there is an afterlife, I think once you die that's it.  I see what your saying and I do agree with you.  I was just coming at the question with a different view

COME WITH ME. OVERWHELMING POWER AND MADNESS AWAIT

THAT IS NOT DEAD WHICH CAN ETERNAL LIE AND WITH STRANGE AEONS EVEN DEATH MAY DIE

#15    markdohle

markdohle

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,750 posts
  • Joined:21 May 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta area

Posted 13 October 2013 - 12:21 PM

View PostReaperS_ParadoX, on 12 October 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

I believe there is a God, and a Devil. Although I don't believe there is an afterlife, I think once you die that's it.  I see what your saying and I do agree with you.  I was just coming at the question with a different view

I understood, I was glad for your observation, it made me think deeper on this issue.

peace
mark





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users