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Ancient Confession Found


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#1    TheVeryFirstDinosaur

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:14 AM

http://uk.prweb.com/...web11201273.htm


"Atwill asserts that Christianity did not really begin as a religion, but a sophisticated government project, a kind of propaganda exercise used to pacify the subjects of the Roman Empire. "Jewish sects in Palestine at the time, who were waiting for a prophesied warrior Messiah, were a constant source of violent insurrection during the first century," he explains. "When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare. They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish missionary activity was to create a competing belief system. That's when the 'peaceful' Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to 'give onto Caesar' and pay their taxes to Rome."


#2    davros of skaro

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 04:17 AM

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=256051

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=252065

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https://m.youtube.co...h?v=79Lmmy2jfeo <-- "Mythical Jesus" Dr. Carrier
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=IybD2xzkhtc <-- "Mythical Moses" Dr. Price (starts@10:20)
http://www.unexplain...howtopic=272571 <-- Science Behind Irrational Beliefs
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#3    StarMountainKid

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 04:45 AM

I haven't read the other threads on this subject yet, but my question is, how did the Romans convince people of the reality of this fictional character? That would be a real PR achievement.

Or, perhaps the Romans hired an actor to portray this phoney Messiah. ?

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#4    davros of skaro

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 05:05 PM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 11 October 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

I haven't read the other threads on this subject yet, but my question is, how did the Romans convince people of the reality of this fictional character? That would be a real PR achievement.

Or, perhaps the Romans hired an actor to portray this phoney Messiah. ?

Things were written after the supposed event.

Jesus 6 BCE-33 CE? (No mention of Jesus by anyone,or even about Matthew 27:52-:53.)

Pauline Epistles 51-58 CE (The letters considered genuine tell very little about Jesus, and have some interpolations.)

Romans Sack Judea 70 CE (Vespasian,Titus,and Flavius Josephus are key figures.)

Mark 65-70 CE (The Gospels are from unknown Greek educated writers.)
Matthew 75-80 CE
Luke 75-90 CE
John 85-100? CE

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https://m.youtube.co...h?v=79Lmmy2jfeo <-- "Mythical Jesus" Dr. Carrier
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=IybD2xzkhtc <-- "Mythical Moses" Dr. Price (starts@10:20)
http://www.unexplain...howtopic=272571 <-- Science Behind Irrational Beliefs
Inanna the Goddess of love was crucified, then after 3 days/nights was resurrected. An over 3,000 yo Tablet saying this is proof of it's truth. Praise Jesus Serotonin Christ!

#5    Leonardo

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 06:36 PM

View PostStarMountainKid, on 11 October 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

I haven't read the other threads on this subject yet, but my question is, how did the Romans convince people of the reality of this fictional character? That would be a real PR achievement.

Or, perhaps the Romans hired an actor to portray this phoney Messiah. ?

This was before radio, tv and youtube. Most people took stuff they heard from "reliable sources" as 'gospel' (pun intended) - which is pretty much like today, really.

I read the story from another source and found it interesting, but ultimately unproveable unless we discover an actual first-hand source (from the time in question) to corroborate Atwill's claims.

Quote

...ancient confessions recently uncovered now prove, according to Atwill, that the New Testament was written by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they fabricated the entire story of Jesus Christ.

While I know that different sources may present the same story differently, and even inaccurately, I did not read that Atwill had any actual first-hand sources, but was relying on the parallels he drew between the biblical New Testament and Josephus' Wars of the Jews.

If he does have actual first-hand accounts, that would change things considerably, otherwise the claims can be dismissed by Church orthodoxy as others have been - as unsubstantiated.

Edited by Leonardo, 11 October 2013 - 06:45 PM.

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#6    Resh

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 06:58 PM

wow

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#7    Ehrman Pagels 1

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 10:03 PM

View Postdavros of skaro, on 11 October 2013 - 04:17 AM, said:

Hi,

I'm glad you posted that "Which One Is Your Jesus?" video because it's a good one, and I've seen it months ago. The Romans may have, indeed, manipulated the messiah story, but one cannot go around Isaiah 9:6 and Isaiah 7:14. They can't touch that old prophet. Thing is, the "Lord" is not a mere messiah, He is Immanuel, which is "El is with us." He's basically an Avatar, not just an "anointed" man. Was there a "Jesus"? Saint Paul said he saw Jesus (yes, that name), and He spoke to Paul. The Romans didn't concoct Paul. At any rate, there are many stories (interpretations) and pieces of the puzzle floating around out there waiting to be discovered and "created" and no doubt, deliberately kept in the dark. One might even say that Satan is doing an overtime to confuse people. This messiah label is actually like a MacGuffin, and in the end, it's unnecessary because it's the wrong designation.

I do know that there is a power that I called "Lord" in the Void (and my "awareness" assumed that it was Jesus Christ), and apparently, many religions are waiting for a coming Avatar. Again, the "Lord" is Immanuel...an Avatar of "El," not a messiah, an "anointed" human creature. Jesus or not, the NT is a tool to prepare the way for this "Love" God because the true "Lord" is all about love.  


Peace.


#8    Ehrman Pagels 1

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 10:04 PM

Lord
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#9    davros of skaro

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 03:42 AM

View PostNo-thingBornPassion, on 12 October 2013 - 10:03 PM, said:

Hi,

I'm glad you posted that "Which One Is Your Jesus?" video because it's a good one, and I've seen it months ago. The Romans may have, indeed, manipulated the messiah story, but one cannot go around Isaiah 9:6 and Isaiah 7:14. They can't touch that old prophet. Thing is, the "Lord" is not a mere messiah, He is Immanuel, which is "El is with us." He's basically an Avatar, not just an "anointed" man. Was there a "Jesus"? Saint Paul said he saw Jesus (yes, that name), and He spoke to Paul. The Romans didn't concoct Paul. At any rate, there are many stories (interpretations) and pieces of the puzzle floating around out there waiting to be discovered and "created" and no doubt, deliberately kept in the dark. One might even say that Satan is doing an overtime to confuse people. This messiah label is actually like a MacGuffin, and in the end, it's unnecessary because it's the wrong designation.

I do know that there is a power that I called "Lord" in the Void (and my "awareness" assumed that it was Jesus Christ), and apparently, many religions are waiting for a coming Avatar. Again, the "Lord" is Immanuel...an Avatar of "El," not a messiah, an "anointed" human creature. Jesus or not, the NT is a tool to prepare the way for this "Love" God because the true "Lord" is all about love.  


Peace.

OY!







Posted Image
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=79Lmmy2jfeo <-- "Mythical Jesus" Dr. Carrier
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=IybD2xzkhtc <-- "Mythical Moses" Dr. Price (starts@10:20)
http://www.unexplain...howtopic=272571 <-- Science Behind Irrational Beliefs
Inanna the Goddess of love was crucified, then after 3 days/nights was resurrected. An over 3,000 yo Tablet saying this is proof of it's truth. Praise Jesus Serotonin Christ!

#10    Mr Walker

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 11:18 AM

Doesn't really matter does it. This all happened 2000 years ago and modern people educated in the most modern western countries still accept Christ in faith. He heals, changes hearts and minds, and brings peace to peoples minds he transforms the body and spirit of modern humans just as he has done for two millenia. So really his origins are irrelevant ( I Have my own quite conventional opinion about him.)  Belief in him continues to heal and empower people. It eases grieving, allows forgiveness and teaches so much about how we should behave towards our selves and others.

it can turn a Pakistani killer/politician, into a preacher  of love forgiveness and peace, as well as bringing him back from fear and suicidal thoughts at the way his life was going, with many people trying to assassinate him, and he in turn killing his rivals.

It can transform an alcoholic,  an abuser or a violent  person, or  a hells angel in the same way by transforming the person within them and creating a "new man"  from the old one..
It can bring peace, strength, and power to the abused, the crippled, and the weak/down trodden, in the world.
With this  transformative power, it is no wonder that this message, and faith in him, endures into the post modern age.

Edited by Mr Walker, 13 October 2013 - 11:20 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#11    Labyrinthus

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 12:08 AM

View PostShrine Builder, on 11 October 2013 - 03:14 AM, said:

"Atwill asserts that Christianity did not really begin as a religion, but a sophisticated government project, a kind of propaganda exercise used to pacify the subjects of the Roman Empire. "Jewish sects in Palestine at the time, who were waiting for a prophesied warrior Messiah, were a constant source of violent insurrection during the first century," he explains. "When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare. They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish missionary activity was to create a competing belief system. That's when the 'peaceful' Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to 'give onto Caesar' and pay their taxes to Rome."

This entire thesis is rather absurd on the face of it. Jesus came along at the height of the Roman Empire and there was no need to engage in the theatrics proposed in this work by "Atwill". Not to mention the fact that this sort of wag-the-dog politcal subterfuge was not yet invented at the time given that brute force smack-downs were heretofore so very effective. The total and complete annihilation of the Jews, the destruction of Jerusalem and the diaspora in 70AD made the Jews a non-problem. The fact of the persecution of the early Christians in 65-300AD time frame further undermines this idea of the Christian movement being a Roman fabrication to quell a puny Jewish revolt that never expanded beyond the borders of Palestine.
[Spartacus -- now *that* was a revolution that the Romans really needed to worry about].

There is a fair amount of very real historical evidence that Jesus was a real man who walked the Earth (Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger). The real debate is over what he actually taught. We are presented with the canonical Gospels from only four of twelve Apostles. With the discovery of the Nag Hamaddi scrolls and more recently the Gospel of Judas the waters are now considerably more muddied.

But this incessant campaign to deny the historical Jesus is growing tedious.
Who are these characters pushing that nonsense?

?


#12    Ehrman Pagels 1

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 02:02 AM

View Postdavros of skaro, on 13 October 2013 - 03:42 AM, said:

OY!
Do I believe in Satan? I, personally, wouldn't discount it. There are negative forces in this world. But...you always have the choice to ignore them.

Jesus. "Lord" is more like it. That's the name I called that entity in Void. It's emanation is "unconditional love." "Unconditional love," unlike what most people believe, is not an emotion. It is pure power to give that fullness in one's "awareness." I wonder why you're so invested in Jesus. Isaiah's Immanuel is an Avatar, not a messiah. You seem to ignore that. Oi.


No one can get around Isaiah.

Peace.


#13    Ehrman Pagels 1

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 02:04 AM

Dr. Michael Heiser and Satan.




#14    willowdreams

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 06:07 AM

I personally do not think it matters if it is true or false. No importance AT ALL.

Christianity IS becoming less an less among people now .. the groups of christianity and other faiths that are around are more of a 'pick and choose what you want to follow' variety, who will ignore some parts of the bible and grasp onto others, or admit 'yes many evils in bible, baby killing, et et et et but.. that was then.. this is now'.. type of thing.

As the pick and choose moves forward, less and less is being kept and more and more ignored or tossed out for being just 'tradition'.

There will always be some groups around, but I would say by the time my great great grandchildren are grandparents themselves, religion will be almost a 'moot point' and tossed into the bin of 'superstition and willfull ignorance'.

And bad things will STILL happen and good things will STILL happen.

Science in all it's glory, is wonderful for one very very huge reason.

It is admittedly ever changing, ever growing. It does not DICTATE one life in order to gain some life afte life. It is not even about disproving or proving god.

It is about change. What we learn today can change tomorrow when something else it learned, science fact can become 'oh wow.. NOW look what we learned that changed what we thought we kenw!' and it does htis without shame.

It is about growth and moving forward, never about standing still on one thing.

People are scared of science because it is NOT standing still. Because evry so often we disprove something we thought was proven.

But that is the wonder of science.

And more and more youths today who has access to multiple media platforms, are learning this for themselves.

SO jesus being made up? I always believed it was. But true or false on who made it up, is no longer important.

And for THAT.. I am glad.

Edited by willowdreams, 14 October 2013 - 06:09 AM.

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#15    Light_Within

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:58 AM

Science hasn't found the cure for the common cold not to mention cancer.





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