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"Christian" is a useless term


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#16    freetoroam

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:14 AM

View PostJ. K., on 17 October 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

The term "Christian" is almost meaningless.  Although there is only one Church - the body of Christ, essentially the avatar of Jesus - there are many, many denominations, groups, movements, and belief systems.  One person who calls himself Christian may actually have diametric beliefs to another Christian.  All of this can make it difficult to discuss Christianity without identifying specific beliefs and influences.
We have enough cults as it is,  you can not just start giving a different name to them just because one does not  believe in putting Marmite on their toast before 7 in the morning!


#17    Frank Merton

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:26 AM

There are Christians who say certain other Christians are not Christians, and this creates problems for Christians, but non-Christians don't worry about it much.


#18    freetoroam

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 03:43 PM

Who are these Christians saying this about other Christians, how can we identify them?


#19    GreenmansGod

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 03:52 PM

View PostJ. K., on 18 October 2013 - 02:21 AM, said:

I don't make a claim of exclusivity for myself nor for the local church I attend.  I have known hundreds of people who share my beliefs.  If I am exclusive, it is believing that the Bible is God's word.  Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father but by me."  I am neither petty nor intolerant; instead I must accept those words.  Jesus claimed the exclusivity.

Then maybe rather than saying others who don't share your belief system aren't Christians say you are not Christian and call yourself something different like Bible-ist.  How do you actually know what Jesus said, in the end he didn't actually write anything down and it appears to me to be hearsay. If you look at the actual history of the book it has been radically changed even after Council of Nicea. I think the Coptic Christians are really the only ones who have the history to be on a line of being the first Christians, so I would say they are actually the only "real" Christians.

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#20    J. K.

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 06:21 PM

Then perhaps I should be an "I-am-the-way-and-the-truth-and-the-life-ist."

One's reality is another's nightmare.

#21    freetoroam

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 07:03 PM

Iatwattatli, now that could catch on J.K.


#22    DeWitz

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:06 PM

View Postfreetoroam, on 18 October 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

Iatwattatli, now that could catch on J.K.

Sounds Welsh or Botswanan to me. . .---oops! There I go again, pigeonholing and compartmentalizing my fellows!

I believe the search for exactitude and comprehensiveness in defining human religio-spiritual beliefs/classifications is an eternal one.

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#23    freetoroam

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:06 PM

View Postszentgyorgy, on 18 October 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

Sounds Welsh or Botswanan to me. . .---oops! There I go again, pigeonholing and compartmentalizing my fellows!

I believe the search for exactitude and comprehensiveness in defining human religio-spiritual beliefs/classifications is an eternal one.
Its just the initials, saves wasting time on long  and ridiculous names.

As for the search, I can`t be assed, I do not have an eternity. :passifier:


#24    Mr Walker

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:43 PM

View PostJ. K., on 17 October 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

The term "Christian" is almost meaningless.  Although there is only one Church - the body of Christ, essentially the avatar of Jesus - there are many, many denominations, groups, movements, and belief systems.  One person who calls himself Christian may actually have diametric beliefs to another Christian.  All of this can make it difficult to discuss Christianity without identifying specific beliefs and influences.
Ah but it is a broad church. One can follow Christ using many models of belief and behaviour, just as there are many types of " Australian".  "Christian" can be used to separate from all "Non Christian" and is thus useful, in doing this.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#25    libstaK

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:43 PM

View PostJ. K., on 18 October 2013 - 02:21 AM, said:

I don't make a claim of exclusivity for myself nor for the local church I attend.  I have known hundreds of people who share my beliefs.  If I am exclusive, it is believing that the Bible is God's word.  Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life.  No one comes to the Father but by me."  I am neither petty nor intolerant; instead I must accept those words.  Jesus claimed the exclusivity.
I read that and what I get is:

I am the way = follow the path I took in life and it will lead straight to God.
I am the truth = what I tell you is true, the path of my life is true
I am the life = the path I took and the words I spoke will enact the true "life" God wishes for man within him.

No one comes to the Father but by me = you need to learn what I knew, walk the path I walked into comprehension, to reach the Father.

All in all, he is showing us through his teachings how to come to the Father.  I do not read it as worship of him is the way to the Father.  So many people will simply pray to and worship Jesus while going about their lives as they have always done thinking "I pray to Jesus = job done".  This doesn't ring true to me, we need to be paying attention to what he said, what he did and why he did those things - we don't need to pray to him, except for more teaching and guidance, we need to comprehend what he was trying to teach us about the nature of Truth and Life.  It is his teaching which is the path, he speaks of himself as the product of his teaching in action.

I come to this because I consider that he was first and foremost a humble man - he did not act to bring power to himself but to personify the Glory of God on earth.  I believe others can also personify this glory - so did he, apparently.

Matthew 5:5-9
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Edited by libstaK, 18 October 2013 - 11:44 PM.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

Inscription - Temple of Delphi

#26    Mr Walker

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:21 AM

View PostlibstaK, on 18 October 2013 - 11:43 PM, said:

I read that and what I get is:

I am the way = follow the path I took in life and it will lead straight to God.
I am the truth = what I tell you is true, the path of my life is true
I am the life = the path I took and the words I spoke will enact the true "life" God wishes for man within him.

No one comes to the Father but by me = you need to learn what I knew, walk the path I walked into comprehension, to reach the Father.

All in all, he is showing us through his teachings how to come to the Father.  I do not read it as worship of him is the way to the Father.  So many people will simply pray to and worship Jesus while going about their lives as they have always done thinking "I pray to Jesus = job done".  This doesn't ring true to me, we need to be paying attention to what he said, what he did and why he did those things - we don't need to pray to him, except for more teaching and guidance, we need to comprehend what he was trying to teach us about the nature of Truth and Life.  It is his teaching which is the path, he speaks of himself as the product of his teaching in action.

I come to this because I consider that he was first and foremost a humble man - he did not act to bring power to himself but to personify the Glory of God on earth.  I believe others can also personify this glory - so did he, apparently.

Matthew 5:5-9
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
What I like about these precepts is that are demonstrably true in this present life. One does not have to die and be reborn to find them to be true. Live by those precepts and you will find each promise physically fulfilled while you remain alive .

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#27    libstaK

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:28 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 19 October 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

What I like about these precepts is that are demonstrably true in this present life. One does not have to die and be reborn to find them to be true. Live by those precepts and you will find each promise physically fulfilled while you remain alive .
Exactly so Mr Walker - the Kingdom of Heaven is already within us, here and now we just need to live in it.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

Inscription - Temple of Delphi

#28    danielost

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:43 AM

To be a christian all you have to do is believe christ is the son of god and he died for our sins and rose from the dead.  Everything else is about what kind of work you need to do here on earth to get to heaven.  But, christ said all were saved dispite the work.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#29    danielost

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:48 AM

View PostGreenmansGod, on 18 October 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:



Then maybe rather than saying others who don't share your belief system aren't Christians say you are not Christian and call yourself something different like Bible-ist.  How do you actually know what Jesus said, in the end he didn't actually write anything down and it appears to me to be hearsay. If you look at the actual history of the book it has been radically changed even after Council of Nicea. I think the Coptic Christians are really the only ones who have the history to be on a line of being the first Christians, so I would say they are actually the only "real" Christians.


I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.

#30    danielost

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:52 AM

All ancient christian churchs and the protistants have lost the truth of christ.  The one that comes the closest to having the truth are the masons.  They have the truth but they hide it from the world, ie put their light under a basket.

I am a Mormon.  If I don't use Mormons believe, those my beliefs only.
I do not go to church haven't for thirty years.
There are other Mormons on this site. So if I have misspoken about the beliefs. I welcome their input.
I am not perfect and never will be. I do strive to be true to myself. I do my best to stay true to the Mormon faith. Thanks for caring and if you don't peace be with you.




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