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Study, Rats with friends dont do drugs


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#1    spartan max2

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 12:37 AM

This is called the rat park drug experiment. A drug study that doesn't get talked about much

http://www.stuartmcm...t-park/#page-38

Wikipedia summary

"Rat Park was a study into drug addiction conducted in the late 1970s (and published in 1980) by Canadian psychologist Bruce K. Alexander and his colleagues at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia, Canada.
Alexander's hypothesis was that drugs do not cause addiction, and that the apparent addiction to opiate drugs commonly observed in laboratory rats exposed to it is attributable to their living conditions, and not to any addictive property of the drug itself.[1] He told the Canadian Senate in 2001 that prior experiments in which laboratory rats were kept isolated in cramped metal cages, tethered to a self-injection apparatus, show only that "severely distressed animals, like severely distressed people, will relieve their distress pharmacologically if they can."[2]
To test his hypothesis, Alexander built Rat Park, an 8.8 m2 (95 sq ft) housing colony, 200 times the floor area of a standard laboratory cage. There were 16–20 rats of both sexes in residence, an abundance of food, balls and wheels for play, and enough space for mating and raising litters.[3]:166 The results of the experiment appeared to support his hypothesis. Rats who had been forced to consume morphine hydrochloride for 57 consecutive days were brought to Rat Park and given a choice between plain tap water and water laced with morphine. For the most part, they chose the plain water. "Nothing that we tried," Alexander wrote, "... produced anything that looked like addiction in rats that were housed in a reasonably normal environment."[1] Control groups of rats isolated in small cages consumed much more morphine in this and several subsequent experiments."





My summary: So this guy decides to have rats in isolated cages and to have rats in a community called Rat park. Because he believed it was the environment that caused drug addiction not the drug. He found that the Rats in the park would barley take the drugs or use it. They didn't want to. The ywere happy with other rats.

So then they decide to make the rats junkies and then add them all to the park to see what happens. The rats had withdraw systems but the ones in the parks decided to not continue doing the drugs.  The isolated rats in cages on the other hand did.

I think it goes to show that people don't get addicted to drugs because of the drugs, but they do because of other problems.

" I imagine that the intellegent people are the ones so intellegent that they dont even need or want to look "intellegent" anymore".
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#2    freetoroam

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 12:39 AM

Do they do oreos?

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#3    spartan max2

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 12:49 AM

everyone does Oreos

" I imagine that the intellegent people are the ones so intellegent that they dont even need or want to look "intellegent" anymore".
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#4    Lilly

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:02 AM

This doesn't surprize me in the least. Isolated, miserable creatures will obviously seek any solace they can get. Seems reasonable that humans would have a similar reaction. If we see our society producing more and more drug addicted people then we need to take a long hard look at what our society has become.

However, none of this applies to the question of oreos. Even the happy rats in the rat park would most certainly consume the oreos. IMO any creatures will choose to consume oreos if given half a chance ...*goes off to the kitchen cupboard where the oreos are kept*

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#5    Lava_Lady

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:09 AM

I am not sure how much of this study can be applied to humans because, yes, people with addictive personalities self medicate with drugs but addicts also gravitate toward each other and are not necessarily getting high alone... this behavior you can see in any park after dark.

Also, when pulled out of the drug environment and put into a "clean" environment, no matter how supportive and healthy, the addict will remain an addict.  And will usually struggle to get back to their drug habit.

That's why we spend millions on rehab that doesn't necessarily work the first time.  Heroin addicts are some of the worse, they are pretty much users for the rest of their lives.  They may be able to get off heroin with methadone but then they're on methadone for the rest of their lives.

The rats appeared to be able to recover immediately after changing environment.  Of which I'm glad because I think it's pretty ****ed up to make addicts of animals just to see possible outcomes on humans.  Especially since the social structure of rats and humans is completely different.

Oreos, on the other hand... now that is a problem.  Will discuss further after I finish mine.

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#6    spartan max2

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:16 AM

View PostLava_Lady, on 18 October 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

I am not sure how much of this study can be applied to humans because, yes, people with addictive personalities self medicate with drugs but addicts also gravitate toward each other and are not necessarily getting high alone... this behavior you can see in any park after dark.

Also, when pulled out of the drug environment and put into a "clean" environment, no matter how supportive and healthy, the addict will remain an addict.  And will usually struggle to get back to their drug habit.

That's why we spend millions on rehab that doesn't necessarily work the first time.  Heroin addicts are some of the worse, they are pretty much users for the rest of their lives.  They may be able to get off heroin with methadone but then they're on methadone for the rest of their lives.

The rats appeared to be able to recover immediately after changing environment.  Of which I'm glad because I think it's pretty ****ed up to make addicts of animals just to see possible outcomes on humans.  Especially since the social structure of rats and humans is completely different.

Oreos, on the other hand... now that is a problem.  Will discuss further after I finish mine.

I agree humans are diffrent

Edited by spartan max2, 18 October 2013 - 01:19 AM.

" I imagine that the intellegent people are the ones so intellegent that they dont even need or want to look "intellegent" anymore".
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#7    spartan max2

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:21 AM

I think that the study seems to suggest that addictions are mostly psychologically based.

" I imagine that the intellegent people are the ones so intellegent that they dont even need or want to look "intellegent" anymore".
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#8    _Only

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:23 AM

View Postspartan max2, on 18 October 2013 - 12:37 AM, said:


I think it goes to show that people don't get addicted to drugs because of the drugs, but they do because of other problems.

This isn't new news to anyone who has had a severe enough drug problem to have to go to rehab. The process in rehab deals with figuring out the root problem that causes you to continue back to the drug destroying your life. Addicts at this point know the drug use is a symptom and not a cause. The cause is what they need to find out, and also what they have been avoiding having to deal with by artificially fooling their brain into feeling okay about.

Addiction is around before any drug is introduced. It's a psychological problem of wanting more, more, more of whatever makes you feel good. People without the problem don't understand what it is exactly like to have a driving unconscious need to have an extreme amount of something they like. They can have a few drinks at a party with friends, and walk away. The addict turns that drink into 10 or 11, until they can't physically drink anymore because they're passed out. They just couldn't stop that need for the thing that makes them artificially feel good. Too much is never enough.

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#9    spartan max2

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:35 AM

View Post_Only, on 18 October 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

This isn't new news to anyone who has had a severe enough drug problem to have to go to rehab. The process in rehab deals with figuring out the root problem that causes you to continue back to the drug destroying your life. Addicts at this point know the drug use is a symptom and not a cause. The cause is what they need to find out, and also what they have been avoiding having to deal with by artificially fooling their brain into feeling okay about.

Addiction is around before any drug is introduced. It's a psychological problem of wanting more, more, more of whatever makes you feel good. People without the problem don't understand what it is exactly like to have a driving unconscious need to have an extreme amount of something they like. They can have a few drinks at a party with friends, and walk away. The addict turns that drink into 10 or 11, until they can't physically drink anymore because they're passed out. They just couldn't stop that need for the thing that makes them artificially feel good. Too much is never enough.

True true

In high school we all experimented with drugs, at least my group of friends. And in hindsight it is easy to see that the ones who ended up becoming drug addict drop outs were the ones who were running from something, mostly messed up home lives.

" I imagine that the intellegent people are the ones so intellegent that they dont even need or want to look "intellegent" anymore".
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#10    freetoroam

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 07:24 AM

Once again we have  researchers tested on rats, when if they really want to find out about the affects of drugs they just need pop along to the nearest rehab if they want true results.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#11    Lava_Lady

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 07:50 AM

View Postfreetoroam, on 18 October 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

Once again we have  researchers tested on rats, when if they really want to find out about the affects of drugs they just need pop along to the nearest rehab if they want true results.

Agree!

We can learn a lot from rats about successful social structure though.  They are amazingly loyal and loving creatures.  Smart as whips too!

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#12    freetoroam

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 08:06 AM

View PostLava_Lady, on 18 October 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

Agree!

We can learn a lot from rats about successful social structure though.  They are amazingly loyal and loving creatures.  Smart as whips too!
All the more reason to do the study on humans, they are not all loving and loyal....especially when drugs are involved. Many a crackhead are more loyal to their dealers well before their families.

In an ideal World a law would be passed were NO guns were allowed and all those out there destroyed, trouble is the law makers are not going to take a risk of trying to pass that without making sure they are armed first.

#13    Lava_Lady

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 08:11 AM

View Postfreetoroam, on 18 October 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

All the more reason to do the study on humans, they are not all loving and loyal....especially when drugs are involved. Many a crackhead are more loyal to their dealers well before their families.

Very true, I've seen addicts do some heinous things to their own family members in the name of crystal meth amphetamines.  Ugly stuff.

I used to see an ad from a drug study group looking for active crystal users here on the island and I always wondered if they got any users to come in and participate in the study since the addicts I've seen barely have the patience to open a newspaper up much less read through to find the damn ad.  lol

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#14    Drayno

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 06:53 PM

View Postspartan max2, on 18 October 2013 - 12:49 AM, said:

everyone does Oreos

No way. :innocent:

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#15    Lilly

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 08:01 PM

View PostHatake Kakashi, on 18 October 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

No way. :innocent:

Aww come on... just one little oreo with a nice cold glass of milk...what can one little cookie hurt?

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