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The Threat of Israel's WMD Arsenals


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#1    Yamato

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 07:42 AM

Based on Israel's history of ignoring chemical, biological, and nuclear treaties, of attacking its neighbors, of engaging in international assassinations, of human rights violations, of war crimes and crimes against humanity, of violations of numerous UN Security Council Resolutions, is the world safe by tolerating Israel's extralegal, untested and uninspected arsenals?

Could Israeli nukes pose a threat to more than just Iran?

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
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#2    freetoroam

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 08:15 AM

US and Britain will get in there and take down the leaders, and in this instance, no proof is needed , the weapons are there.


Well, they did it before, surely they would do it again, the countries religion should not stand in the way!,

OH WAIT.
Where are NATO.......keeping check on their bank accounts?

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#3    XingWi

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 09:12 AM

View PostYamato, on 19 October 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

Based on Israel's history of ignoring chemical, biological, and nuclear treaties, of attacking its neighbors, of engaging in international assassinations, of human rights violations, of war crimes and crimes against humanity, of violations of numerous UN Security Council Resolutions, is the world safe by tolerating Israel's extralegal, untested and uninspected arsenals?

Could Israeli nukes pose a threat to more than just Iran?

Way to go Yamato. :tu:. I was hoping someone would start a thread on this issue.

Lets not forget that Israel's policies are shaped by centuries old anti-gentile traditions in Judaism and those include "the worthlessness of a gentile's life". This is a must read: http://www.biblebeli...g.au/jewhis.htm because Shahak was a Jew himself and served in the Israeli military so it's an insider's account on Israel's support for anti-gentile views. I think, the worthlessness of a gentile's life in the eyes of Israeli leaders  is a major factor worth considering here. Will Israel hesitate to destroy civilian lives of the rest of the world's population (not just Iran), in the event it is about to face attack from any hostile nation, or not?

Edited by XingWi, 19 October 2013 - 09:17 AM.


#4    Yamato

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 09:45 AM

View PostXingWi, on 19 October 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Way to go Yamato. :tu:. I was hoping someone would start a thread on this issue.

Lets not forget that Israel's policies are shaped by centuries old anti-gentile traditions in Judaism and those include "the worthlessness of a gentile's life". This is a must read: http://www.biblebeli...g.au/jewhis.htm because Shahak was a Jew himself and served in the Israeli military so it's an insider's account on Israel's support for anti-gentile views. I think, the worthlessness of a gentile's life in the eyes of Israeli leaders  is a major factor worth considering here. Will Israel hesitate to destroy civilian lives of the rest of the world's population (not just Iran), in the event it is about to face attack from any hostile nation, or not?
Thinking I'm better than everybody else (having a strong self esteem) is probably a great way to get ahead in the world.  

We have to be careful with some of these sites supposedly interpreting the Talmud and professing supposed Jewish beliefs though.   I did homework on one of them with a copy of the Talmud on-screen and found that every one of the claims I looked into turned out to be false.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#5    XingWi

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 10:30 AM

View PostYamato, on 19 October 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

Thinking I'm better than everybody else (having a strong self esteem) is probably a great way to get ahead in the world.  

We have to be careful with some of these sites supposedly interpreting the Talmud and professing supposed Jewish beliefs though.   I did homework on one of them with a copy of the Talmud on-screen and found that every one of the claims I looked into turned out to be false.

I agree. Any religious scripture can be interpreted in a multitude of ways. "God's chosen people" have thier own interpretations. I think, like you said, some neutrality can be achieved by going to the original source, but those that are interpeting it in some other way will continue to do so. Articles on the internet that deliberately misquote something or quote it out of context should be ignored. Not sure if the one I gave link to is one of those. Anyway, here is the link to the original: Israel Shahak's book (if anyone is interested in verifying):

http://www.amazon.co...s/dp/074530818X

Edited by XingWi, 19 October 2013 - 10:32 AM.


#6    Frank Merton

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 10:36 AM

Leaving religion out of it, I think it highly unlikely Israel doesn't have an arsenal of nuclear weapons.  Chemical and biological weapons are less likely, as the Israelis have much better judgment than the Syrians, as they also have than the Iranians as they seem able to keep quiet about it.

What conclusion can one draw from this?  A fairly simple one, I think -- don't let the "destroy Israel" rhetoric get out of control or you will be destroyed.


#7    Jeffertonturner

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 10:49 AM

I wondered when the anti-Israel threads would start again. It's fun to play with the spinning wheel of suspicion.

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#8    XingWi

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:00 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 19 October 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

Leaving religion out of it, I think it highly unlikely Israel doesn't have an arsenal of nuclear weapons.  Chemical and biological weapons are less likely, as the Israelis have much better judgment than the Syrians, as they also have than the Iranians as they seem able to keep quiet about it.

What conclusion can one draw from this?  A fairly simple one, I think -- don't let the "destroy Israel" rhetoric get out of control or you will be destroyed.

I don't think the rhetorics are as much about "destroy israel" as about "leave the palestinians alone". If the arab states were indeed hell bent on eliminating a country that is only as big as new jersey from the map it would have been destroyed by now.

Edited by XingWi, 19 October 2013 - 11:02 AM.


#9    XingWi

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:02 AM

View PostJeffertonturner, on 19 October 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

I wondered when the anti-Israel threads would start again. It's fun to play with the spinning wheel of suspicion.

What goes around comes around? ;)


#10    Leonardo

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:36 AM

View PostJeffertonturner, on 19 October 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

I wondered when the anti-Israel threads would start again. It's fun to play with the spinning wheel of suspicion.

Criticism of the policies of Israel's govt should not be considered "anti-Israel" any more than the criticism of the policies of any nation's govt are "anti-<that_nation>".

Hypocrisy, prejudice and belligerence deserve criticism no matter the source and if the policies of Israel's govt promote any of these it should not be held un-criticisable simply because of history.

Edited by Leonardo, 19 October 2013 - 11:37 AM.

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#11    Frank Merton

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:44 AM

The criticism of Israel is indeed "anti-Israeli," and tends to be highly one-sided and irrational.  I am by no means pro-Israeli -- I just see it as another country trying to make its way -- but I do understand their right to defend themselves.  As far as I am concerned the Palestinians could have solved the issues ages ago and by now be prospering: they have brought their present situation onto themselves although even now if they were sensible they could back off and do fine.


#12    joc

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:00 PM

View PostYamato, on 19 October 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

Based on Israel's history of ignoring chemical, biological, and nuclear treaties, of attacking its neighbors, of engaging in international assassinations, of human rights violations, of war crimes and crimes against humanity, of violations of numerous UN Security Council Resolutions, is the world safe by tolerating Israel's extralegal, untested and uninspected arsenals?

Could Israeli nukes pose a threat to more than just Iran?
Man, do you just live in a bass ackwards world or what?  Israel's neighbors attack Israel.  The UN is a den of thieves.  Meanwhile, Iran, the World's number one proprietor of Terrorism gets a pass?  Please wake up Yamato.  We are all doomed..but not because of Israel...mostly because of thought processes such as yours.
When has Israel ever attacked any  country in the region that wasn't threatening her?

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#13    Leonardo

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 02:07 PM

View Postjoc, on 19 October 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

Man, do you just live in a bass ackwards world or what?  Israel's neighbors attack Israel.  The UN is a den of thieves.  Meanwhile, Iran, the World's number one proprietor of Terrorism gets a pass?  Please wake up Yamato.  We are all doomed..but not because of Israel...mostly because of thought processes such as yours.
When has Israel ever attacked any  country in the region that wasn't threatening her?

Nothing personal, joc, but this is a totally inane statement.

Attacking another nation which 'threatens' is an act of aggression and condemned in the UN Charter as a war crime. Nations can threaten, bluster and posture all they want but so long as they do not take direct aggressive actions against the security of the nation (or it's citizens) then military action against those nations constitutes a war of aggression (whether war is declared or not.)

There have been instances of conflict in the region where Israel has been defending itself. There have also been instances where Israel has been the aggressor. None of the nations involved in this are innocent, and it is only when those who fervently defend Israel's 'innocence' recognise this fact that concessions leading to an eventual peace may truly begin.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#14    Bavarian Raven

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 03:15 PM

At above, sometimes (sadly) the best defence is a good affence. If you wait for your enemy to attack, you might be overwhelmed. Just my two cents.


#15    and then

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 05:46 PM

View PostXingWi, on 19 October 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

I don't think the rhetorics are as much about "destroy israel" as about "leave the palestinians alone". If the arab states were indeed hell bent on eliminating a country that is only as big as new jersey from the map it would have been destroyed by now.
With due respect, 1948, '56, '67 and '73 in your mind does not count as the Arabs TRYING?  If not then I think it shows a definite bias and delegitimizes your pov.  

View PostYamato, on 19 October 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:


Based on Israel's history of ignoring chemical, biological, and nuclear treaties, of attacking its neighbors, of engaging in international assassinations, of human rights violations, of war crimes and crimes against humanity, of violations of numerous UN Security Council Resolutions, is the world safe by tolerating Israel's extralegal, untested and uninspected arsenals?

Could Israeli nukes pose a threat to more than just Iran?
Actually Yam, I think the world IS afraid and SHOULD be afraid of Israel's nukes.  That's kind of the point. :)
Unless one believes it's all a bluff then Israel has been thought to have ever advancing nuke capacity since about 1968.  Estimates from as low as 80 to as high as 300 warheads along with the delivery systems to use them effectively.  AFAIK they have only mobilized them once in these 45 years -after the sneak attack in '73 when being over run was a real possibility. That in itself should educate a rational person about the mindset of the state.  If Israel ever decides to give up their nuclear shield then the country would quickly be decimated - though never completely destroyed.  And Israel may someday be pressured to do so but no one will ever have the cajones to TAKE them from them :)

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