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How ghosts can exist - scientific overview

ghosts scientif explanation

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#16    Scepticus

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 02:11 PM

Okay explain scientifically, why there aren't any black ghosts.

:D

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#17    _Only

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 02:40 PM

View PostEmma_Acid, on 28 October 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:



Firstly, whats powering ghosts? Secondly, what is the evolutionary benefit of them existing? Lastly, why are all ghosts Victorian, and why don't we get any caveman ghosts?

1. I wouldn't know that type of thing. I just said part of someone's idea was interesting. If I was to give a passing guess, I would say emotion powers an event sticking around in time. Ghost is also a loose term for this situation.

2. Again, you're interviewing the messenger, but I'll respond for conversation sake.

I don't know.

What is the evolutionary benefit for loving music? For a beautiful art piece making you cry? These are also events tied to emotion and memory, so I would guess that if you could explain those, you could explain this better.

3. They're not. The romantic stories of seeing Victorian ghosts are the most recounted, and likely most fabricated, but all other kinds exist, too. Cavemen, average joes from the '70's, even the witnesses own self.

This is the 'lecture' where I heard the idea, at a paranormal conference on the USS Hornet:



While I seem to like what if's, I'm getting the vibe that you seem to like trying to find ways for what if's to not be possible. Just my passing observation.

Edited by _Only, 28 October 2013 - 02:42 PM.

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#18    Mike G

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 02:49 PM

View Postfrancis da don, on 27 October 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

An amazing elaborative explanation on the existance of ghosts through a scientific perspective, a MUST READ!

  Here is the link http://howscience.wordpress.com/

Reads like someone took their intro to anatomy class and decided they were capable of writing the next great breakthrough in science.

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#19    TopToffee

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 04:30 PM

Are ghosts,if they exist,just freeloaders in life or do they pay a way?.If I'm paying for them now then I will haunt them when I go!


#20    SSilhouette

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:18 PM

Well if it's true what they say about energy not being able to be destroyed, and if humans do possess a measurable energy field, then ghosts can exist.   Trauma doctors can revive some patients and another with the same symptoms and problems on a lesser scale will die no matter what is done.  The old saying "don't give up the ghost!" means convincing the patient's spirit to stick around and revive the body.  Some choose to and some have had enough and just move on.  Or the body is so badly mangled or diseased that the cohesive energy form no longer can or wants to occupy it.


#21    freetoroam

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 06:01 AM

View PostScepticus, on 28 October 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Okay explain scientifically, why there aren't any black ghosts.

:D
There probably are, but most photos are taken in the dark.

Actually, there are more likely to be as many black ghosts as there are white, Chinese and Indian, which is ......zero.

Edited by freetoroam, 29 October 2013 - 06:01 AM.

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#22    Rlyeh

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 06:39 AM

View PostSSilhouette, on 28 October 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

Well if it's true what they say about energy not being able to be destroyed, and if humans do possess a measurable energy field, then ghosts can exist.   Trauma doctors can revive some patients and another with the same symptoms and problems on a lesser scale will die no matter what is done.  The old saying "don't give up the ghost!" means convincing the patient's spirit to stick around and revive the body.  Some choose to and some have had enough and just move on.  Or the body is so badly mangled or diseased that the cohesive energy form no longer can or wants to occupy it.
You seem to think energy is something it's not.


#23    Frank Merton

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 06:49 AM

View PostRlyeh, on 29 October 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

You seem to think energy is something it's not.
I would say that it is reasonable to assert that whatever our "mind" or life spirit may be if it isn't just "brain," it is not electromagnetic or any other known form of energy.


#24    TopToffee

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:00 AM

View PostScepticus, on 28 October 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Okay explain scientifically, why there aren't any black ghosts.

:D
Has someone been watching Karl Pilkington. ;)


#25    Emma_Acid

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:05 PM

View Post_Only, on 28 October 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

1. I wouldn't know that type of thing. I just said part of someone's idea was interesting. If I was to give a passing guess, I would say emotion powers an event sticking around in time. Ghost is also a loose term for this situation.

Emotion can't power anything. Otherwise I'd be able to drive to work fueled on anger alone.


View Post_Only, on 28 October 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

2. Again, you're interviewing the messenger, but I'll respond for conversation sake.

I don't know.

What is the evolutionary benefit for loving music? For a beautiful art piece making you cry? These are also events tied to emotion and memory, so I would guess that if you could explain those, you could explain this better.

The concept of ghosts existing is not the same as loving music.

For something like the afterlife, ghosts, etc to exist, there would need to be a reason in nature for these things to evolve. Thats how it works. And I don't want any of this "its supernatural" guff. Thats just special pleading.


View Post_Only, on 28 October 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

3. They're not. The romantic stories of seeing Victorian ghosts are the most recounted, and likely most fabricated, but all other kinds exist, too. Cavemen, average joes from the '70's, even the witnesses own self.

I've never heard of ghost cavemen. And we have ghost dogs, but no dinosaurs. Which is odd.

At the end of the day, most sightings are of Victorian people. They just are. And why is this? Because most ghost stories originate from Victorian times, when the public became obsessed with the supernatural.


View Post_Only, on 28 October 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

While I seem to like what if's, I'm getting the vibe that you seem to like trying to find ways for what if's to not be possible. Just my passing observation.

I don't see the point in "what ifs", especially in a thread about the scientific basis for ghosts.


View PostSSilhouette, on 28 October 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

Well if it's true what they say about energy not being able to be destroyed, and if humans do possess a measurable energy field, then ghosts can exist.

Thats not what energy is.


View PostSSilhouette, on 28 October 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

Trauma doctors can revive some patients and another with the same symptoms and problems on a lesser scale will die no matter what is done.  The old saying "don't give up the ghost!" means convincing the patient's spirit to stick around and revive the body.  Some choose to and some have had enough and just move on.  Or the body is so badly mangled or diseased that the cohesive energy form no longer can or wants to occupy it.

Just plain twaddle.

"Science is the least subjective form of deduction" ~ A. Mulder

#26    aimlesswalk

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:24 PM

No matter how hard the sceptics try they'll never be able to disprove ghosts because it's part of a universe of events which will never reveal itself wholly to anyone the barest outline of which is only perceptible to us.

Edited by aimlesswalk, 29 October 2013 - 01:31 PM.


#27    Leonardo

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:27 PM

View PostSSilhouette, on 28 October 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

Well if it's true what they say about energy not being able to be destroyed, and if humans do possess a measurable energy field, then ghosts can exist.

That doesn't necessarily follow. While energy does not simply 'disappear', it can be transformed or dissipated. If we consider human life as 'energy', then upon death that energy is transformed (through the process of decay) and dissipated. If we make an assumption of a 'soul' and that this is a cohesive energetic form, we might also consider this energy simply dissipates on death - rather than surviving the death of body as a ghost or spirit.

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#28    Frank Merton

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:37 PM

View Postaimlesswalk, on 29 October 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

No matter how hard the sceptics try they'll never be able to disprove ghosts because it's part of a universe of events which will never reveal itself wholly to anyone the barest outline of which is only perceptible to us.
You can't prove anything you might imagine doesn't exist, so that is a pointless thing to say.  Skepticism isn't denial, it's "I will withhold belief of odd things unless you show me."


#29    aimlesswalk

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:09 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 29 October 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

You can't prove anything you might imagine doesn't exist, so that is a pointless thing to say.  Skepticism isn't denial, it's "I will withhold belief of odd things unless you show me."

That's a good way to approach things and what I usually do but it wasn't always so.

Edited by aimlesswalk, 29 October 2013 - 02:25 PM.


#30    Emma_Acid

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:19 PM

View Postaimlesswalk, on 29 October 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

No matter how hard the sceptics try they'll never be able to disprove ghosts because it's part of a universe of events which will never reveal itself wholly to anyone the barest outline of which is only perceptible to us.

Firstly, skepticism is not about disproving things - its about not basing your worldview on pointless conjecture or wishful thinking.

Secondly, it isn't down to the skeptics to disprove ghosts, but to the believers to prove that they exist - which so far has never happened.

Thirdly, your point is what is known as "special pleading". Essentially saying that what you believe is outside the realms of measurement, and therefore cannot be understood by science - which is odd, given that believers go out of their way to try and prove these things scientifically. Special pleading is resorted to when this doesn't work.

"Science is the least subjective form of deduction" ~ A. Mulder





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