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The real Dracula was absolutely vicious

vlad the impaler vlad tepes dracula vampire bram stoker

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#16    Antilles

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 05:12 AM

Vlad would have been all right as long as you didn't cross him.

Considering he was an absolute ruler, that wouldn't have been a hard thing to achieve.


#17    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 08:03 AM

View PostAntilles, on 03 November 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

Vlad would have been all right as long as you didn't cross him.

Considering he was an absolute ruler, that wouldn't have been a hard thing to achieve.
Or didn't take your hat off inside (he once nailed a hat to someone' head because he said he forgot (or was it religious reason??)).

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#18    Helen of Annoy

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 01:19 PM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 03 November 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

Or didn't take your hat off inside (he once nailed a hat to someone' head because he said he forgot (or was it religious reason??)).
Kind of religious.
You see, these were two emissaries from the sultan, and they, naturally, wore turbans on their heads.
A turban, unlike a hat, is not supposed to be taken off and put back on on every entering/exiting and Vlad, the creative psychopath that he was, used that fashion difference to accuse Turks of having no manners and showing no due respect to Vlad and his court. He ordered their turbans nailed to their heads to give them a proper reason for keeping their headgear on while inside Christian house.

There’s that old superstition that wearing a hat on inside the house will invoke a death of a member of the family and now we see that there’s some truth in superstitions. Or there used to be some truth in them.

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#19    coolguy

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 06:09 AM

He was nuts he would put people on poles


#20    Nenaraz

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 02:06 PM

Vertical Impalement was done by the turks (Ottoman) much more than Vladislav ever did.

Vladislav III Zmajevic or commonly Vlad Cepesh (Vlad Tepesh, Vlad the Impaller) was a Vlach (Vlash) duke who was following an Order of the Dragon who sought to defend against the ever-growing ottoman empire.

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Vladislav was one of the twenty four knights in that order, symbolically so since his name, Drakul, means "Dragon".

The order had a purpose to kill sultan Murat I (Moo-rat) which happened at battle of Kosovo & Metohiya at 1389. year, which serbian knight Milos Obilic succeeded at, however his head was cut off and placed on a pole. The same happened to Vladislav, however his head was sent to Istanbul and also placed on a pole, as a symbol.

Anyway, there are several movies about him (historical) which are being as close as possible according to the historical evidences.

Spoiler



#21    thyra

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 07:44 PM

What I know is Sultans had to go to Vlad many times because the public was really disturbed by his severe punishments and actions thus they turned to ottomans for help.  Turks are not ottomans. ottomans were composed of many nationalities. Ottomans was an empire. Turk is a single nationality. they are not the same thing.

the link above ITSELF says "Whether these events turned Vlad III Dracula ("son of the dragon") into a ruthless killer is a matter of historical speculation." after mentioning ottoman torture. because a deep investigation would prove it wrong and probably even a student of history can do it. :)



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#22    Nenaraz

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 08:14 PM

I agree with your points, however while you are correct that they had many people not from Turkey itself most of the Ottomans are Turks by definition since the "ottoman" derives from "Osman-iyye" (Osmanlije, Osman-lee-ye') a.k.a Osman I ('os-man) who was the founder of the empire and collected the tribes under his rulership and leadership.

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My country, for an example, was under the Osmanlije for roughly five hundred years and it's one of the important lessons in the history books for elementary school. Their army consisted of units such as yeniceri (yaa-nee-char-ee) which were serving the turkish leaders. They were the kidnapped children, usually christian one, converted to Islam and often as a test of their service, when they mature, they'd be sent to kill their own parents. Many songs were made for that.

As for Vladislav (I'm going to name him by original name) there's a portrayal that he ate breakfast while listening to the people who were impaled.


#23    thyra

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 08:37 PM

Why do you think it was Vlad who inspired the blood sucking Dracula and not an ottoman emperor then? :)

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#24    thyra

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 08:52 PM

Osman was turk yes, and the rulers of the empire identified themselves as turk that is true also. But the wives(especially the famous ones) of the sultans just like yeniceri (army) were NOT Turks.In the state administration also there were non turks. If the wives of the sultans are not turks and the state administration is not led only by turks you cant really say it is a turkish empire or they are turk.  but yes sultans have chosen to identify themselves so because of their respect to Osman the founder.  
it was such a big piece of land not everything could be done by Turks alone. Yeniceri army was the army that made that land that big. You cant make such a succesful army in the way you told it.

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#25    Helen of Annoy

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 09:10 PM

View Postthyra, on 19 November 2013 - 08:52 PM, said:

Osman was turk yes, and the rulers of the empire identified themselves as turk that is true also. But the wives(especially the famous ones) of the sultans just like yeniceri (army) were NOT Turks.In the state administration also there were non turks. If the wives of the sultans are not turks and the state administration is not led only by turks you cant really say it is a turkish empire or they are turk.  but yes sultans have chosen to identify themselves so because of their respect to Osman the founder.  
it was such a big piece of land not everything could be done by Turks alone. Yeniceri army was the army that made that land that big. You cant make such a succesful army in the way you told it.
Janissary were only a part of Ottoman army. Sultan was a Turk by default, regardless where concubine that gave birth to him hailed from. Language of the Ottoman empire was Turkish and the state it morphed into is modern Turkey, populated by Turks.
There was genetic mixing of epic proportions, but everyone sucked into Ottoman empire was poturchen (made Turk) and their descendants remain Turks in Turkey until this day, they mostly don’t know their ancestors were stolen from Slavic lands.
Case not closed because there was no case, of course Ottoman and Turks are synonyms.

Can we go back to Romania and Vlad now?
Man was complete psycho, and I blame Turks who held him hostage as a boy for that. At least partially. You can’t screw up a man like that if he wasn’t a little sick from birth, but the situation was definitely not in favour of Vlad’s mental health.



There. In the memory of the Hospitalers from Vrana. Historians will understand.

Edited by Helen of Annoy, 19 November 2013 - 09:11 PM.

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#26    thyra

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 09:27 PM

No, you dont wanna discuss Vlad, you just want to blame something for what he did.
Article itself is saying that if he is tortured by ottomans is a historical speculation. (you brought about the discussion to turks it isnt even mentioned in the article.) So I am smelling something deliberate here.
I am not "ottoman empire" so I dont need to defend anything. But as I said and explained  above their state is not ruled by turks alone and you can find it in any serious historical research. They identify themselves as turk because of my above explanation.

of course you can go back to Romania now :)

ah btw, thanks for writing the name of the ethnicities beginning with a capital letter. I can never do that, you know.

Edited by thyra, 19 November 2013 - 09:39 PM.

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#27    Helen of Annoy

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 09:42 PM

View Postthyra, on 19 November 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

No, you dont wanna discuss Vlad, you just want to blame something for what he did.
Article itself is saying that if he is tortured by ottomans is a historical speculation. (you brought about the discussion to turks it isnt even mentioned in the article.) So I am smelling something deliberate here.
I am not "ottoman empire" so I dont need to defend anything. But as I said and explained  above their state is not ruled by turks alone and you can find it in any serious historical research. They identify themselves as turk because my above explanation.

of course you can go back to Romania now :)
I don’t just want to blame something for what he did, I do blame Turkish invaders for what he did and I have recorded history to back my opinion up.
Psychopath of Dracul’s proportions would be offed by his own terrorized population if there was no Turkish threat and it looks like his habit of gruesomely murdering random bystanders cost him his throne and life in the end despite there was Ottoman, thoroughly Turkish empire scaring the **** out of people probably equally as much their own Vlad did.
Impaling was Turkish method of execution, applied by Ottoman invaders in Bosnia, for example, where people had no idea who Vlad Tepes was. He picked that up from Turks, maybe even back then when he was child hostage in Turkey.
Now take a deep breath of your own posts and get back to me when you find out what kind of roses can permeate like that. So, feeling fed yet? If not, I'll be back tomorrow, I'm done for today.

Edited by Helen of Annoy, 19 November 2013 - 09:43 PM.

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#28    thyra

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 09:51 PM

ermm, I am not annoyed, I guess. :)
I am sad if you are feeling remorse against a whole of an ethnicity...for you of course. I hated one person and it took me years to get over it and i am still working on it but you have a whole nation before yourself..must be tough. it is sad you are educated that way. because probably you are educating your children this way as well.

My grandparents are Circassian, they were send away from their homes by some rulers. They died on their way to here where I live now. It is history. I cant go back to those rulers and tell them what they are doing is wrong but I myself am a ruler here and I choose not to defend anything against you. Perhaps this gives you some ease and comfort. take care.

Edited by thyra, 19 November 2013 - 09:58 PM.

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#29    spud the mackem

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:11 PM

There is a Cemetary on top of a hill just outside Whitby , Yorkshire England, which has a Gravestone standing there with just one word on it.......DRACULA. It is reported that no birds fly over that Cemetary.

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(2) try your second best, ........if that dont work
(3) give up you aint gonna win

#30    Helen of Annoy

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:12 PM

View Postthyra, on 19 November 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

ermm, I am not annoyed, I guess. :)
I am sad if you are feeling remorse against a whole of an ethnicity...for you of course. I hated one person and it took me years to get over it and i am still working on it but you have a whole nation before yourself..must be tough. it is sad you are educated that way. because probably you are educating your children this way as well.

My grandparents are Circassian, they were send away from their homes by some rulers. They died on their way to here where I live now. It is history. I cant go back to those rulers and tell them what they are doing is wrong but I myself am a ruler here and I choose not to defend anything against you. Perhaps this gives you some ease and comfort. take care.
All right, if it's urgent, it's urgent.
Vlad Tepes, if possible, if you wish to discuss me further I suggest Cryptozoology section.

So, more on topic, as pretty much everyone agreed so far, cruelty was a rule not an exception in Vlad’s time, but that guy was exceptionally cruel even for standards of that period.
Impaling hundreds of people at once sounds much worse than civilized vampire biting occasional neck. But said civilized vampire strikes many readers as metaphor for STD, or venereal disease as they called them so poetically back then when they were much greater taboo than today.
I think Vlad would be p***ed off with Dracula that somehow evolved from his name and work.

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