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50th Anniversary of JFK Assassination


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#16    Kowalski

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 12:38 AM

View PostAntilles, on 07 November 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

I have put Donahue's theory out there for debate. There are many people who disagreed with his findings.

Agent Hickey sued St Martin's Press in 1995 but his lawsuit was rejected in 1997 because he had taken too long after the book was published to file his claim.

Both Donahue and Hickey are dead.

For a conspiracy you have to have at least 2 people. I believe there was another shooter besides Oswald. I do not think the shooter was behind the motorcade. Behind the grassy knoll, behind the picket fence, in front of the railway yard, maybe. On top of the overpass, maybe.

List of suspects is long. CIA, FBI, Mafia, Cuban ex pats, nutters.

Add your own or discount them. Do you have a theory as to who killed JFK?

Have you seen this:



Quote

The ninth documentary in the series, entitled "The Guilty Men," directly implicates former U. S. President Lyndon B. Johnson (LBJ) and created an outcry among Johnson's surviving
associates
, including Johnson's widow, Lady Bird Johnson, journalist Bill Moyers, ex-President Jimmy Carter, (who like all US presidents has many skeletons in his closet but we won't go into that here). Jack Valenti (longtime president of the Motion Picture Association of America), and the last-living (at the time of the outcry) Warren Commission commissioner and ex-President Gerald R. Ford. They demanded the series never be aired again and of course the History Channel of course bowed to pressure and pulled the series.
The Wall street rag er Journal called it a "primitive piece of conspiracy-mongering" I would expect a propaganda rag like the Wall Street Journal to lower themselves to slander and name calling instead of backing up their straw man slanders with documentation and evidence.
And the chief executives of the three parent companies of A & E Networks, —Victor F. Ganzi of the Hearst Corporation, Michael D. Eisner of Disney, and Robert C. Wright of NBC and former United States President Gerald Ford. Have all slandered the documentary. And if you know anything about these characters is a huge surprise -- NOT!

Johnson was put in there by the powers that be, to create a war in Vietnam, and help insure the CIA grew to what it did under Reagan, and they continue their power until this day....

Edited by Kowalski, 08 November 2013 - 12:55 AM.


#17    DONTEATUS

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 02:02 AM

Come on people Chime In Please ! Oswald didnt Shoot JFK   Shot in the Front ? Have you not Read,Seen thought about it for the last 50 yrs  enough to know that what happened that day was caught of not just Flim,but directly in the minds  and eyes of a few thousand people ? :tu:

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#18    summanabeech

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 03:16 AM

My first post:

Some random thoughts and questions:

The Zapruder film has been "digitally enhanced" but it still gives me eye strain.  Is that the best they can do?

Was Oswald a lefty? (not leftist)  A right handed shooter would be at a disadvantage scrunched out of the right side of the window.

The Warren report believers have bent over backwards trying to prove that Oswald's bullet could have caused Kennedy's head to move back and to the left or how the same bullet could have caused the head to explode. Donahue's theory that it was a different type on bullet is compelling and by itself would necessitate a different shooter although I think his idea that Hicks fired the shot is implausible.

As for who was inside the conspiracy, the mob, LBJ, Castro, etc., we may never know for sure but it may be 'all of the above'.


#19    Czero 101

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 03:28 AM

View Postsummanabeech, on 08 November 2013 - 03:16 AM, said:

My first post:

Some random thoughts and questions:

The Zapruder film has been "digitally enhanced" but it still gives me eye strain.  Is that the best they can do?

Was Oswald a lefty? (not leftist)  A right handed shooter would be at a disadvantage scrunched out of the right side of the window.

The Warren report believers have bent over backwards trying to prove that Oswald's bullet could have caused Kennedy's head to move back and to the left or how the same bullet could have caused the head to explode. Donahue's theory that it was a different type on bullet is compelling and by itself would necessitate a different shooter although I think his idea that Hicks fired the shot is implausible.

As for who was inside the conspiracy, the mob, LBJ, Castro, etc., we may never know for sure but it may be 'all of the above'.

Welcome to the board.

The OP has so far ignored requests to explain why he doesn't believe Hickey could be the second shooter. Maybe you can explain why you think it is implausible...?





Cz

"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe..." - Carl Sagan
"I'm tired of ignorance held up as inspiration, where vicious anti-intellectualism is considered a positive trait, and where uninformed opinion is displayed as fact." - Phil Plait
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#20    Likely Guy

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 03:32 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 07 November 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

Fifty years ago.  My word.

I was in college in the States when it happened; in a French class in fact.  The bells all over the campus began ringing and our teacher (a spry old Frenchwoman) went out to find out what was going on.  She came back in with tearful eyes and said, "No more class today," and left.

Personally I find the conspiracy theories surrounding his death pointless and crass, especially at this late date.

Frank, when I heard that JFK was dead I crapped my pants (but, I was 3 months old).

As far as your second part, yeah. Too many theories with too little evidence and way too late.


#21    summanabeech

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 04:00 AM

View PostCzero 101, on 08 November 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

Welcome to the board.

The OP has so far ignored requests to explain why he doesn't believe Hickey could be the second shooter. Maybe you can explain why you think it is implausible...?





Cz

I would again go to the Zapruder film where Kennedy's head goes back and to the left.  The 'explosion' occurred on the right/rear of the head and would have, if it had any propulsion power at all, pushed the head forward to the left.  I also would rule out the probability of such a mishap. Could he have accidently discharged the gun? quite possibly.  But directly at the president? Possibly, but very unlikely.  I also think that according to sonic evidence and earwitnesses, no one seems to have reported hearing a shot coming from that direction in the motorcade nor did the other agents in the limo react as I think they instinctively would. So overall, I can't yet buy into that theory.


#22    Czero 101

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 04:52 AM

View Postsummanabeech, on 08 November 2013 - 04:00 AM, said:

I would again go to the Zapruder film where Kennedy's head goes back and to the left.  The 'explosion' occurred on the right/rear of the head and would have, if it had any propulsion power at all, pushed the head forward to the left.

According to the forensic examination, the entrance wound was on the right rear of Kennedy's head, and the exit wound - the "explosion" - was on the upper-right portion of the skull (above and forward of the ear). Assuming a frangible bullet was used, as evidence suggests, hen the bullet shattered and burst through the skull, the resulting "explosion" of tissue and bullet fragments from the skull - which would still be following a forward-and-right trajectory - would certainly have resulted in a rearward-and-left movement of Kennedy's head. Remember also that with frangible bullets, they don't necessarily "explode" on impact. They leave a small entry wound and a MUCH larger exit wound, due to the bullet shattering inside the target.

Its not rocket science, but when you actually think about it, this is how rockets work - material is ejected in one direct at a high rate of speed / pressure causing a pushing force in the opposite direction. Given the high velocity of the bullet and the short distance from the bullet's entry to exit, there's simply not enough time to see the head being pushed forward by the bullet entry before it gets violently shoved back by the "explosive" exit.

Quote

I also would rule out the probability of such a mishap. Could he have accidently discharged the gun? quite possibly.  But directly at the president? Possibly, but very unlikely.

Well, certainly it would have been a one in a million shot, I think that can definitely be agreed upon.

Quote

I also think that according to sonic evidence and earwitnesses, no one seems to have reported hearing a shot coming from that direction in the motorcade nor did the other agents in the limo react as I think they instinctively would.

But there were reports of people smelling burnt gun powder at street level, and coming from the direction of the follow car. There were at least 10 witnesses who reported it to the police when they were interviewed on the day, including people who were in the motorcade. Plus there were at least 11 eyewitnesses who saw "someone" in the follow car with a rifle, and 7 of them were Secret Service agents. One witness who was in motorcade behind the follow car said that he saw (presumably) Hickey standing up, looking back to where the forst shots came from then stumbling back and waving the rifle around seemingly randomly.

Unfortunately much of this evidence was either overlooked or ignored by the Warren commission - witnesses who had given statements on the day weren't called to testify, and those who did testify were seemingly ignored, even though their testimony did make it into the Commission's findings.

As to the other agents in the car, its possible that given how short a time frame we are talking about here - 8 seconds, probably less, between the first shot to the motorcade speeding away - that there just wasn't enough time for them to process everything that was happening - gunshots behind them, people panicking, President down, car speeding away, etc. and react before they were already away from the scene and en-route to the hospital.

Quote

So overall, I can't yet buy into that theory.

Fair enough. I'm not saying necessarily that the Donohue scenario IS what happened, or that it explains everything, but for me at least, it explains enough of the evidence to be a highly plausible explanation. As others have said, in all reality, we probably will never know precisely what happened that day...

At least you're willing to address the issue, so thanks for that :tu:


ETA...

If you didn't see the "JFK: The Smoking Gun" special, it is viewable on their website - http://www.sbs.com.au/thesmokinggun/ - and on YouTube - https://www.youtube....h?v=cqg7CHEUJh0




Cz

Edited by Czero 101, 08 November 2013 - 04:58 AM.

"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe..." - Carl Sagan
"I'm tired of ignorance held up as inspiration, where vicious anti-intellectualism is considered a positive trait, and where uninformed opinion is displayed as fact." - Phil Plait
"For it is the natural tendency of the ignorant to believe what is not true. In order to overcome that tendency it is not sufficient to exhibit the true; it is also necessary to expose and denounce the false." - H. L. Mencken

#23    coolguy

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Posted 08 November 2013 - 05:28 AM

We will never know who did it. There is a video the driver looks like he did it.
What is the of ventures new book


#24    Kowalski

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 02:20 AM

Don't know if anyone knew about this.....

Quote

Battle over Dealey Plaza

After 50 years of deceit and coverup, Dallas is getting ready for a big event on the 50thanniversary of JFK’s assassination. But one thing the establishment there wants most is that those who question the official story get pushed out of the limelight.

Link: http://whowhatwhy.co...ence-on-112213/

More information can be found here: http://jfkcountercou...pa-talking.html


#25    Kowalski

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 02:43 PM

I've read this theory in several JFK Assassination books, and Jesse Ventura uses it in his new book as well...It makes the most sense to me. Enjoy the videos!









#26    Kowalski

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 03:00 PM

I don't know if anyone say this, but I had a thread, on the Deaths of JFK Assassination Witnesses.....

Link: http://www.unexplain...howtopic=250653


#27    promKing

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 05:37 PM

But guys isn't a Zapruder film a hoax? Like for instance when JFK's head explodes the red spray of blood why does it seem to disappear into thin air? If it was real, the “blood” should spread out all over the car and the people but it doesn't. Within a couple of frames, it disappears altogether:
Posted Image
Posted Image

Or what about when Mrs. Connally snaps her head to the rear far too rapidly. Just before she does, she turns her head to the front in a more realistic motion:
Posted Image

Or look at this - all four people lurch forward suddenly:
Posted Image
The car must have braked suddenly at that time. But if you watch the film, the car doesn’t brake at all. Have you ever been in a car when someone has planted their foot on the gas pedal, and been thrown forward?

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#28    DONTEATUS

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 02:55 AM

Keep researching people ITs All right in front of you ! All the Facts ! Three shots Two that hit there marks. One Lost for all of time !

This is a Work in Progress!

#29    DecoNoir

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 03:24 AM

View PostpromKing, on 12 November 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

But guys isn't a Zapruder film a hoax? Like for instance when JFK's head explodes the red spray of blood why does it seem to disappear into thin air? If it was real, the “blood” should spread out all over the car and the people but it doesn't. Within a couple of frames, it disappears altogether:
Posted Image
Posted Image

Or what about when Mrs. Connally snaps her head to the rear far too rapidly. Just before she does, she turns her head to the front in a more realistic motion:
Posted Image

Or look at this - all four people lurch forward suddenly:
Posted Image
The car must have braked suddenly at that time. But if you watch the film, the car doesn’t brake at all. Have you ever been in a car when someone has planted their foot on the gas pedal, and been thrown forward?

The so called anomalies are the result of 2 principle things

1- The medium veing a film camera with a variable frame rate and very low quality medium. Droplets of blood from a wound like that would be incredibly small and wouldn't be picked up by the average home movie camera and stock film available at the time.

2- The expectation enforced by Hollywood that a headshot would result in gallons of blood everywhere. Truth is our blood content can be measured in liters. This applies more so when that blog is restricted to tiny capillaries that lace the brain.

Also, that's not a lurch, that's a natural human response to danger. Its pretty well documented that people natural response to gfire is to get as low as possible.

I reject your reality, and substitute my own! Mostly because yours is boring as hell.

#30    promKing

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:08 PM

Expectation enforced by Hollywood?? But if you look at the limo on a frame published only weeks after the assassination, in color, you can see the limo and the people clean as a whistle:
Posted Image

Or what about some other things, who's gonna explain them? Like if Oswald really wanted to kill JFK, like FBI claims he thretened, why did he do it from the book depository because at the last minute the Secret Service changed a small part of their plans so that the President left Main Street and turned into Houston and Elm Streets. So how did Oswald know? And why did the authorities fail to observe Oswald’s entry into the book depository building while allegedly carrying a rifle over three feet long?

Also why did FBI change the stories? The FBI held a series of background briefing sessions for Life magazine, which in its issue of December 6 explained that the President had turned completely round just at the time he was shot:
Posted Image
This was soon shown to be entirely false. It was denied by several witnesses and films. This is how modern debunkers think they were positioned (from a documentary "The Kennedy Assassination - Beyond Conspiracy"):
Posted Image

And that was not even the first offical statemant. The first theory announced by the authorities was that the President’s car was in Houston Street, approaching the book depository building, when Oswald opened fire. When available photographs and eyewitnesses had shown this to be quite untrue, the theory was abandoned and a new one formulated which placed the vehicle in its correct position.

After Ruby had killed Oswald, D.A. Wade made a statement about Oswald’s movements following the assassination. He explained that Oswald had taken a bus, but he described the point at which Oswald had entered the vehicle as seven blocks away from the point located by the bus driver in his affidavit. Oswald, Wade continued, then took a taxi driven by a Daryll Click, who had signed an affidavit. An inquiry at the City Transportation Company revealed that no such taxi driver had ever existed in Dallas. Presented with this evidence, Wade altered the driver’s name to William Whaley. The driver’s log book showed that a man answering Oswald’s description had been picked up at 12:30. The President was shot at 12:31. D.A. Wade made no mention of this. Wade has been D.A. in Dallas for 14 years and before that was an FBI agent.

And what about Oswald's murder of officer Tippit? Miss Helen L. Markham, who states that she is the sole eye–witness to this crime later revealed that the killer had run right up to her and past her, brandishing the pistol, and she repeated the description of the murderer which she had given to the police. He was, she said, “short, a little heavy, and had somewhat bushy hair.” (The police description of Oswald was that he was of average height, or a little taller, was slim and had receding fair hair.) Miss Markham’s sworn statement is the entire case against Oswald for the murder of Patrolman Tippitt, yet District Attorney Wade asserted: “We have more evidence to prove Oswald killed Tippit than we have to show he killed the President.” Also Oswald’s description was broadcast by the Dallas police only 12 minutes after the President was shot. So why was Oswald’s description in connection with the murder of Patrolman Tippitt broadcast over Dallas police radio at 12:43 p.m. on November 22, when Tippitt was not shot until 1:06 p.m.?

And then when police arrested him they interrogated Oswald for nearly 48 hours without allowing him to contact a lawyer, despite his repeated requests to do so. The director of the FBI in Dallas was a man with considerable experience. American Civil Liberties Union lawyers were in Dallas requesting to see Oswald and were not allowed to do so. By interrogating Oswald for 48 hours without access to lawyers, the FBI. created conditions which made a trial of Oswald more difficult. A confession or evidence obtained from a man held 48 hours in custody is likely to be inadmissible in a U.S. court of law.
Also Secret service illegally held MArina Oswald and her mother against their will. Marina was held for nine weeks and questioned almost daily by the F.B.I. and Secret Service, she finally testified to the Warren Commission and, according to Earl Warren, said that she believed her husband was the assassin.  To isolate a witness for nine weeks and to subject her to repeated questioning by the Secret Service in this manner is reminiscent of police behavior in other countries, where it is called brainwashing.

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