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Where did God come from?


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#1    GreenmansGod

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 12:58 AM

Where do you think God came from?  If the Universe can't come from nothing and had to be created, where did the creator come from?

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#2    Euphorbia

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 01:23 AM

View PostGreenmansGod, on 10 November 2013 - 12:58 AM, said:

Where do you think God came from?

People's imagination.

Quote

If the Universe can't come from nothing and had to be created, where did the creator come from?

See above ^^^^^.

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#3    Lilly

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 01:25 AM

IMO God has always existed. However, my ideas about God tend to be a bit different from Judeo-Christian thinking.

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#4    QuiteContrary

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 01:32 AM

This is what happens to me when I ponder where IT ALL came from (whatever your definition of "IT" is). But I can't multitask either.

*photo of exploding head*                  


would not post it

Edited by QuiteContrary, 10 November 2013 - 01:34 AM.

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P.S. Just to be clear, because sometimes I am not. I do not believe...
in the existence of a large previously unknown undiscovered hairy biped roaming North America.
But I like to hear the accounts, read the books, watch the shows, discuss and argue about the phenomenon.

#5    White Crane Feather

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 01:51 AM

God would be the intelligence behind the underlying system. Coexisting with the eternal universe because it is the universe. Not totally unlike yourself. You have a brain, and a mind.the universe/omniverse is the brain and god is the mind. Both if which are eternal. I don't think either had a beginning only evolving. Eternal evolution is bound to create a god far back into eternity many times over.

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#6    libstaK

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 01:52 AM

Carl Jung's Seven Sermons to the Dead comes closest for me in understanding "Where God Came From" so far

From Sermon 1

Harken: I begin with nothingness. Nothingness is the same as fullness. In infinity full is no better than empty. Nothingness is both empty and full. As well might ye say anything else of nothingness, as for instance, white is it, or black, or again, it is not, or it is. A thing that is infinite and eternal hath no qualities, since it hath all qualities.

This nothingness or fullness we name the PLEROMA. Therein both thinking and being cease, since the eternal and infinite possess no qualities. In it no being is, for he then would be distinct from the pleroma, and would possess qualities which would distinguish him as something distinct from the pleroma.

In the pleroma there is nothing and everything. It is quite fruitless to think about the pleroma, for this would mean self-dissolution.

CREATURA is not in the pleroma, but in itself. The pleroma is both beginning and end of created beings. It pervadeth them, as the light of the sun everywhere pervadeth the air. Although the pleroma pervadeth altogether, yet hath created being no share thereof, just as a wholly transparent body becometh neither light nor dark through the light which pervadeth it. We are, however, the pleroma itself, for we are a part of the eternal and infinite. But we have no share thereof, as we are from the pleroma infinitely removed; not spiritually or temporally, but essentially, since we are distinguished from the pleroma in our essence as creatura, which is confined within time and space.

Yet because we are parts of the pleroma, the pleroma is also in us. Even in the smallest point is the pleroma endless, eternal, and entire, since small and great are qualities which are contained in it. It is that nothingness which is everywhere whole and continuous. Only figuratively, therefore, do I speak of created being as a part of the pleroma. Because, actually, the pleroma is nowhere divided, since it is nothingness. We are also the whole pleroma, because, figuratively, the pleroma is the smallest point (assumed only, not existing) in us and the boundless firmament about us. But wherefore, then, do we speak of the pleroma at all, since it is thus everything and nothing?

http://gnosis.org/li...ons.htm#Sermo_I

Edited by libstaK, 10 November 2013 - 01:54 AM.

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If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

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#7    Likely Guy

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 01:59 AM

View PostGreenmansGod, on 10 November 2013 - 12:58 AM, said:

...If the Universe can't come from nothing and had to be created, where did the creator come from?

If the Universe can't come from 'nothing', then it's always existed and has no need for a creator.

Your question is somewhat self-argumentative.

Edited by Likely Guy, 10 November 2013 - 02:06 AM.


#8    Mark56

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 02:02 AM

I heard a Rabbi once say:   " God created God, so we could understand him."

.

#9    SilentHunter

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 02:15 AM

View PostGreenmansGod, on 10 November 2013 - 12:58 AM, said:

Where do you think God came from?  If the Universe can't come from nothing and had to be created, where did the creator come from?

The universe is either an open or a closed system.

There is no proof of which one it is and anybody claiming that there is is being ideological not scientific. If God created the universe then the universe is an open system. That means it can increase or decrease in mass or energy.  Likewise scaling up the universe to the system God exists in then if thats a closed system the only way God could exist forever is if he can create mass or energy from nothingness.

So if you want to prove that God in principle could exist you need to find a form of free energy or mass.


#10    _Only

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 04:13 AM

View PostGreenmansGod, on 10 November 2013 - 12:58 AM, said:

Where do you think God came from?  If the Universe can't come from nothing and had to be created, where did the creator come from?

It really does seem like a cop out to say "we can't comprehend it", but the only way I can relate it to anything I might understand is to take a group of beings we can create a world for and put them in it. I liked the South Park episode, so I'll go with a 'Sea People' analogy.

If I go out and buy a pack of Sea Monkeys (or say I created them, to be a more fitting relation), then make a glass bowl, fill it with water, and pour them in it, I've created them and their world. I could make a special house just for them and put it among property I built on acres of land I bought, and this is they would consider their universe, because it would be all they could possibly perceive, through their own limitations.

Now let's pretend they are deep thinking little Sea People, and ponder how their creator (or what they believe is their creator, for whatever reasons they have chosen) came to be. They would have no way of possibly knowing, because all they know is what their creator has made for them; which is all that they can perceive (or imagine), which can only be based on ideas and concepts they can draw from what they experience. All they can possibly experience (at least at this current point in their state of being) is what is in the created 'universe', most of which they don't even really know about for sure, and can only make guesses from  making observations (assuming they had created little Sea People telescopes to glance across the vast distance of the great room, through the window, out into the seemingly never ending expanse of the grass field outside.

I can imagine the cute little Sea Monkeys filling their time just fine, putting the deep questions aside long enough to get through their daily routines. But I'm sure they would still sit at their little sea computers and log onto Unexplained Mysterseas, to discuss philosophical questions like 'who made our creator'. And in this great Sea Peopliverse, I bet there is one little sea-ling, sitting in his room, writing the same thing I am writing right now, saying "how can we know what we can't possibly Sea?"

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#11    _Only

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 04:19 AM

"If the Universe can't come from nothing and had to be created, where did the creator come from?"

View PostEuphorbia, on 10 November 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

See above ^^^^^.

The problem with seeing all that we can around us, and calling it all that is (Universe) is that there could always be more we simply can't perceive from this vantage point. I'm sure white blood cells would agree with me, if they knew I was their world, and that there was more outside of me. If I could let them in on a ground breaking secret that their world was created by my mom and dad, who were created by their mom and dad, and go all the way until the point when I no longer knew who even made me, we might both at that point come to the understanding that some things we might not ever be able to understand from our own sets of boxes.

Or we could all just assume that what we can see with our eyes, feel with our fingers, and witness with our toys, is all that is, and we can just say it just happened, and that's that.

Given the first paragraph, I just can't do that.

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#12    _Only

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 04:23 AM

View PostLikely Guy, on 10 November 2013 - 01:59 AM, said:

If the Universe can't come from 'nothing', then it's always existed and has no need for a creator.

Your question is somewhat self-argumentative.

No, you just interpreted what he was putting out, leaving out the very important next 5 words.

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#13    Eldorado

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 05:33 AM

His mother found him under a cabbage leaf.


#14    _Only

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 06:15 AM

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#15    Rlyeh

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 06:19 AM

The minds and imaginations of his authors.





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