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Stone tipped spears predate humans by 85,000


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#1    Myles

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 06:00 PM

http://www.foxnews.c...intcmp=features


#2    Child of Bast

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 06:14 PM

So animals used to be a lot smarter than us and were using stone tipped spears to slaughter each other. :tu:

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#3    Lilly

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 06:37 PM

Uh...pre-humans (in this case Heidelberg man) made the stone tipped spears. Animals tend to rip each other apart with teeth and claws!

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#4    questionmark

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 07:04 PM

Did not know that the Heidelberg man was not human... but then again the piece is according to the editorial quality of Fox News.

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#5    Myles

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 07:14 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 14 November 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

Did not know that the Heidelberg man was not human... but then again the piece is according to the editorial quality of Fox News.
Actually no.
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#6    cormac mac airt

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 07:19 PM

That's not much better Myles, as it's already understood in the scientific community that any member of the genus Homo is considered human. Which obviously would make Heidelberg Man (Homo heidelbergensis) a human. The point of interest per the article is really this, at what level of humanities existance did we start making spears?

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#7    PersonFromPorlock

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 08:17 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 14 November 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

The point of interest per the article is really this, at what level of humanities existance did we start making spears?

cormac

Probably right after we got unhappy with clubs.


#8    Lilly

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 08:20 PM

Thanks for clearing that up cormac. So, our distant ancestor were indeed human, just not modern humans (is this correct?).

View PostPersonFromPorlock, on 14 November 2013 - 08:17 PM, said:

Probably right after we got unhappy with clubs.

LOL!

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#9    cormac mac airt

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 09:37 PM

View PostLilly, on 14 November 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

Thanks for clearing that up cormac. So, our distant ancestor were indeed human, just not modern humans (is this correct?).



LOL!

Hi Lilly,

Correct. All humans fall within the genus Homo, which starts with Homo habilis c.2.5 mya. Anatomically modern humans (AMH) originate c.200,000 BP as supported by both the archaeological finds of Omo Kibish, Ethiopia (Omo 1 and 2) as well as genetic studies relating to mitochondrial DNA haplogroup L c.192,400 BP. Behaviorally modern humans date to no earlier AFAIK than 100,000 BP. Swede could elaborate more on the latter, but what we see quite often in the media is a sizeable lack of understanding of the entire human line, each groups relation to the others within same, as well as the nomenclature already established. Hope that helps.

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#10    lightly

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:35 PM

I wonder if  pointed  sticks , without stone tips,  were in use for  stabbing game as early as clubs.     Observing other animals hunt, we would learn that  Piercing the flesh of the prey was the most commonly used method.    What animal clubs it's prey to death?       A big hand held Tooth would work fine ... until you figured out you could also throw it.

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#11    Lilly

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:39 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 14 November 2013 - 09:37 PM, said:


Correct. All humans fall within the genus Homo, which starts with Homo habilis c.2.5 mya. Anatomically modern humans (AMH) originate c.200,000 BP as supported by both the archaeological finds of Omo Kibish, Ethiopia (Omo 1 and 2) as well as genetic studies relating to mitochondrial DNA haplogroup L c.192,400 BP. Behaviorally modern humans date to no earlier AFAIK than 100,000 BP. Swede could elaborate more on the latter, but what we see quite often in the media is a sizeable lack of understanding of the entire human line, each groups relation to the others within same, as well as the nomenclature already established. Hope that helps.


Very helpful, thanks. I'm always impressed by some of the things I learn here on UM.

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#12    questionmark

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 02:16 PM

View Postlightly, on 14 November 2013 - 11:35 PM, said:

I wonder if  pointed  sticks , without stone tips,  were in use for  stabbing game as early as clubs. Observing other animals hunt, we would learn that  Piercing the flesh of the prey was the most commonly used method. What animal clubs it's prey to death?    A big hand held Tooth would work fine ... until you figured out you could also throw it.

There were horn tipped spears too, as well as fire hardened wood. Sometimes all three types have been found in the same paleontological dig. Probably a question of "economical" capability of the bearer.

Edited by questionmark, 15 November 2013 - 02:19 PM.

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#13    Piney

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:21 PM

I was thinking of the Boxgrove site in Southern England where rhinos were butchered with stone tools about 500,000 years ago by Homo heidelbergenis. They apparently used wood spears. There was another site in Germany where the actual complete spears were found.
As for what Questionmark said about "economic capabilities". Here in New Jersey during the Archaic flintknapping was a specialized skill done only by certain craftsmen. Some of the more unskilled hunters probably could not "afford" them and that is the reason we find antler spearpoint tips. The same thing might have occurred in other areas.

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#14    lightly

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:24 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 15 November 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

There were horn tipped spears too, as well as fire hardened wood. Sometimes all three types have been found in the same paleontological dig. Probably a question of "economical" capability of the bearer.

   thanks q,   ya, i knew of fire hardened wood tips , and bone tips,  .. forgot about horn tips,  good idea though. We probably ate fruits and nuts and greens and bugs and worms and whatnot  for a lonnng time before  we went hunting for larger food?


   * interesting piney, (and good to see you back in this neck of the woods)     I actually had just typed ..  " Eventually,  the guy that was handiest at making stone tips must have been rich! lol "  ...   but deleted it.

Edited by lightly, 15 November 2013 - 03:27 PM.

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#15    paperdyer

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 06:35 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 14 November 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

Did not know that the Heidelberg man was not human... but then again the piece is according to the editorial quality of Fox News.
And if Man is 85,000 years older as a race, I'm sure Fox news will blame it on the Democrats somehow. :yes:





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