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Abducted?


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#1    ego_slam

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Posted 25 February 2003 - 11:36 PM

                                                  excl.gif
I want to know how to go about finding out if you have been an adubctee or not. I have avery strong feeling that something has happened, but I want to go into it further. Is there any place where this can ba done online, and, preferably free, as I am a poor college student.                                                  


#2    FreyKade

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 12:13 AM

                                                  i would suggest seenig a hypnotist, but i think that if you meditate, you may be able to get the same result                                                  

"isn't that intresting Dave, i mean every step you take down that chain, takes you one step further from your imagination"

i said
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#3    ego_slam

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 12:16 AM

                                                  ok. I do meditate, but how would I go about finding that out through meditation?                                                  


#4    FreyKade

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 12:50 AM

                                                  im not sure, but i heard that if you go into deep meditation and focus on the events just before you might be able to remember what happend next......but i wouldnt take my advice.

im probably wrong.

someone like magicman or homer may know                                                  

"isn't that intresting Dave, i mean every step you take down that chain, takes you one step further from your imagination"

i said
"you're right! youre a bit of a hippy, but you're right"
- Dave Gorman

"Wanna buy some pegs Dave?"
"I got some pegs belonging to you"
- Papa Lazarou

#5    reese2

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 02:32 AM

                                                  Ok, I wasn't going to reply, since this could be better done by Magik, but I will do it anyway...

You said you wanted to know if there was a way that you could tell if you have been abducted, online??  Are you serious??  How could anyone possibly tell that?  If you cannot tell yourself in the flesh how the heck is someone supposed to tell via internet?  I just find it funny.  As if becoming an ordained minister online isn't the oddest part of the World Wide Web, now there should also be a service at home in the privacy of your computer chair that can accurately tell if someone has been abducted. ???


Ok, now all jokes aside.  The best advice I have is decide for yourself if you really think it is possible, then go get some help.  I don't know what I mean by that, seeing how skeptical I am about people's motives.  I doubt that I would ever feel comfortable going under due to the suggestiveness of the person putting me under.  So, just go with your gut.  If you were abducted, the physical signs are really the only thing that could be proof of something, not a person that tells you what to believe.


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#6    Kismit

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 08:27 AM

                                                   My suggestion would be this . Does it happen regularly ?
If it does then see if you can record the events with a video camera or tape recorder . Get some evidence on what is really happening before jumping to any conclusions . a hypnotist is probably not a the best way to find out as you can be highly suseptible to sugestions while under hypnosis.
It is possible that you could be suffering from sleep parallisis , as the symptoms of this can include a feeling of not being able to move , visions of lights and beings in the room.
Simply try to gather your own evidence first .
  Good luck  smile.gif                                                  


#7    Althalus

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Posted 26 February 2003 - 12:15 PM

                                                  that and the fact that it is becoming increasingly more popular that abduction experiences are actually dreams of your own birth being replayed back to you.

the term for it is BMH or Birth Memory Hypothesis.

And it states that each experience in an abduction senario is actually a feature of birth and that you are remembering them, but because it happened a long time ago the memroy has become distorted.

for example in abductions the abductee feels weightlessness, this has been accounted for as the baby being inside the womb floating in the amniotic fluid before birth.  The not being able to move bit of abduction has been described as when you are put in swadling clothes or wrapped in the blanket.  

the full list is this:

alien genetics procedures - overall perinatal experiences

birth lab - womb and amniotic memories

body probing/memories - post natal exam

body dismemberment - normal vaginal passage hallucinations

body size change - normal vaginal pressure

breathing problems - late stage placental hypoxia

centre doors opening - the dilating cervix

communication or message - bonding or loving contact

fetal humanoid - womb/infant memories

floating - featus in amniotic suspension

head,body pressure - normal vaginal birth

humming - womb or maternal sounds

paralysis - normal vaginal pressure or delivery room swaddling

pulsing sensation - placental pulse or maternal heartbeat

sense of abrupt motion - in womb as mother moves about

tastes of odours - amniotic fluid or post natal gore

time loss, amnesia - emotional memories of perinatal events

transparant walls/rooms - translucent amnion

tubes of various sizes - umbilical/placental memories

tunnel for boarding/exit - vaginal birth memories

but this could be wholely dismissed by a fully developed CE3 case, but there are none, there is always a flaw in the case.                                                  

"We make choices everyday, some of them good, some of them bad. And - if we are strong enough - we live with the consequences."
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#8    Kismit

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 09:18 AM

                                                  Woah!!!!!! You learn somthing new every day . Thanx Al  smile.gif                                                  


#9    Althalus

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 12:20 PM

                                                  Your welcome Kismit.  smile.gif                                                  

"We make choices everyday, some of them good, some of them bad. And - if we are strong enough - we live with the consequences."
David Gemmell

#10    Kira

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    Thanks TO xx

Posted 27 February 2003 - 12:33 PM

                                                  
QUOTE
it is becoming increasingly more popular that abduction experiences are actually dreams of your own birth being replayed back to you.


ohmy.gif I hope that never means that they suddenly come up with the idea thatit's that or the fact you gave birth....... wink.gif not something I would want to do again...

But yeap thanx Al.
* Celti goes off glad she never thought she'd been abducted  huh.gif                                                  

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#11    reese2

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 03:11 PM

                                                  I don't know Al, that is almost as crazy, and exhausting to believe as the actual abduction scenerio.   unsure.gif


I don't think that in every case adbuction should be ruled out.  There has to be physical signs of it taking place.  I have had some wild dreams, but I don't ever dream about my birth..

Abductions could take place, but the physical signs would far out weigh the mere 'feeling' of something not being right.  I agree that everyone should stay far away from any swaying opinion, because in the end it really lays in the hands of the person, on what to believe.  Obviously, if a person is abducted, they are not supposed to remember it to begin with.  I would say that if someone feels like they are being 'taken' then set up surveillance.  A camera stragically placed, could be your best friend.  Then if a person is going through the rebirth, you will find that too.  Maybe hear a few loud cries coming from your bed??   tongue.gif


      Reese   kiss.gif                                                  

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#12    Althalus

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 03:48 PM

                                                  Birth Memory Hypothesis (BMH)

The Birth Memories Hypothesis culminated a decade of research into hypnosis and CE-3 reports, including the imaginary abductee study, which led DrW.C McCall and Alvin Lawson to a sceptical veiw of abduction claims. They concluded that abductions are non-physical, archetypal fantasies involving belief or deception in which the witnesses perinatal (pre and post natal) memories play a central role.

Some basic assumptions of the BMH follow from recent brain research. The fetus, once described as completely without thought or memory, is now seen as keenl;y responsive to its environment. Of the two memory systems in the brain, the verbal declarative memory in the hippocampus matures by age four, but non-verbal emotional memory, located in the amygdala, is all but matured at birth. Daniel Goleman writes, "...many potent emotional memories date from the first few years of life, in the relationship between an infant and its caretakers. This is especially true of traumatic events, like beatings  or outright neglect." These 'emotional lessons' are stored in the amygdala as 'rough, wordless blueprints for emotional life' and are difficult for an adult to articulate exactly because they originated before words were there to help an infant understand experiences. It is their belief that this process starts long before birth, certainly before the tumoultous events of the last trimester of pregnancy, so that the earliest if not most intense emotional memories in everyone are perinatal.

Perinatal memories show a strong connection with fantasy, which seems to encourage access to often-inexpressible emotional memories. For example, one can relive the ordeal of birth with the aid of hallucinogenic drugs, as psychiatrist Stanislav Grof has shown, but it can be done somewhat easier under hypnosis, or even while fantasizing an abduction scenario. Their hypnotised real and imaginary CE-3 witnesses were giving figurative perinatal imagery long before Alvin recognized it, and before he realized that Grof's, birth narratives contain major parrallels with abduction imagery. The relation also works in reverse: some of Grof's patients describe hallucinations involving flying saucers, aliens, and Star-Trek like adventures.

UFO's as flying saucers are rich and and varied perinatal symbols, but witness descriptions are usually indirect and metaphorical. Accounts of entering or leaving a UFO may suggest a symbolic birth: abductees squeeze through small cervical doors into big rooms, a process clearly analogous to the newbon's feelings of decompression at delivery. Sometimes the birth reffernce is explicit, such as the woman who said she had to twist through 90 degrees to get through the door, and exact reliving of the fetal rotation in birth.

Only about half of the CE-3 cases are substantive and coherent narratives, yet they all contain perinatal imagery; many are dominated by it. The more detailed the narrative the greater the birth data. - clear indication of a inherent birth/abduction connection.

this theory is siignificant because it is one of the few falsifyable thories ever proposed about abduction cases. There is no reason why an actual abduction should simulate birth imagery in an abductee. The pain of birh and the gore that comes with it, playing any trole between humans and aliens is absurd.

Birth imagery is thus a marker to show that abductions are non-physical events, and as such it gives a way to search for real or false cases.                                                      

"We make choices everyday, some of them good, some of them bad. And - if we are strong enough - we live with the consequences."
David Gemmell

#13    reese2

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 04:39 PM

                                                  OK,  In all of that long drawn out post, it was hard for me to see where you ended your opinion, and interjected the quotes from the publications that you used as example.  What exactly are you saying here?  Are you saying that a hypothosis and their experiments, CE-3, are set in stone?  
First of all a hypothosis is nothing more than a best educational guess.  Given all factors of probability.  

So, if the Doctor's are going into any experiment with a preconcieved notion of what they want the end result to be, wouldn't that in fact muttle it's way through to their experiments, and then in turn, leaving their experminents to be nothing short of doomed and partial, to their benefit,  before they even start?

I don't subscribe to any belief of  Birth Memory Hypothesis (BMH) as the cause to such common things as nightmares, and abductions.  The line is too easily crossed between the two.  If you try hard enough you can find similarities between many different things.  If you were to give me a hallucinogenic drug, of any kind, and put me in a room, with any type of suggestive material, wouldn't I then see what I was shown, or pushed towards?  Or better yet, wouldn't I, if I was just plain imaginative, make up my own reality of any situation.  And, wouldn't it be so real to me at the time, that it would then permenately leave it etched in my imaginative brain?

The idea of being hypnotised is all good, but it really leaves too many questions left to be answered than the person ever started with.  You would have to trust that it was a completely controlled situation, being that the questions are not imposed to the person being 'under' before hand.  


        Reese  

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#14    Althalus

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 07:37 PM

                                                  I didn't have time to put this at the bottom of the last post but the text comes from Alvin H Lawson, and is the climax of his studies to show that abductions are all in the mind.                                                  

"We make choices everyday, some of them good, some of them bad. And - if we are strong enough - we live with the consequences."
David Gemmell

#15    reese2

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Posted 27 February 2003 - 07:43 PM

                                                  Uhhh, ok...............  That hardly even begins to address the issues that I brought up, with the content of his studies, that you posted.  I was just looking for more indepth discussion of what YOU thought, and what stance you take on it, since you did post it.


Does anyone here have an opinion anymore???????


        Reese     wub.gif                                                  

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When one door closes another door opens; but we often look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door that we do not see the ones which open for us." - Alexander Graham Bell

Some of the most beautiful works of art, are often not work at all...




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