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The existence of God can never be proven

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#166    Mr Walker

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 11:42 PM

View PostWhite Crane Feather, on 15 December 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

Yes & no ... I don't know.
You got it right lol.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#167    fullywired

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 04:39 PM

. Post Mr Walker, on 15 December .13



What I am asking, is for you to provide evidence in a scientific sense .that would have to be repeatable, observable and conducted with a program of triple blind examiners to remove potential biasing of the results. have you made such tests and had verifiable results. if so you have evidence of gods existence, if not all you have is faith

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#168    settlingtheworld

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 10:25 AM

The existence of God can never be disproven though and the assumptions of science about how the universe was created is still just a theory.

Edited by settlingtheworld, 17 December 2013 - 10:34 AM.


#169    shadowsot

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 10:41 AM

View Postsettlingtheworld, on 17 December 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

The existence of God can never be disproven though and the assumptions of science about how the universe was created is still just a theory.
Yes, like germ theory and atomic theory and the theory of relativity.

It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
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#170    Frank Merton

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 10:46 AM

View Postsettlingtheworld, on 17 December 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

The existence of God can never be disproven though and the assumptions of science about how the universe was created is still just a theory.
Something you plainly don't get: all of science is theory.  That is what makes it science and not religion.


#171    settlingtheworld

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 12:44 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 17 December 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

Something you plainly don't get: all of science is theory.  That is what makes it science and not religion.

So no one can or can't say conclusively how the universe was formed. The creationist view is just as valid as the Big Bang theory we just don't know.


#172    settlingtheworld

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 12:46 PM

View PostShadowSot, on 17 December 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

Yes, like germ theory and atomic theory and the theory of relativity.

I thought science only dealt in facts.


#173    Rlyeh

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 05:14 PM

A scientific theory is the explanation of said "facts". That said, the creationist view doesn't even come close, its a failed hypothesis.


#174    shadowsot

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 07:34 PM

View Postsettlingtheworld, on 17 December 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:



So no one can or can't say conclusively how the universe was formed. The creationist view is just as valid as the Big Bang theory we just don't know.
No the creationist hypothesis is not as valid. It offers no supporting evidence and is ultimately not falsifiable, which really reduces it from being even a hypothesis.

It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
-Terry Pratchett

#175    Paranoid Android

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 12:14 AM

View Postsettlingtheworld, on 17 December 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

The existence of God can never be disproven though and the assumptions of science about how the universe was created is still just a theory.
One needs to determine the difference between a philosophical theory and a Scientific Theory. In philosophy and general everyday usage, a theory is a speculation, a guess at what may have happened. The evidence is then weighed against it to check its validity. In science a theory is quite different. Science observes facts, data and such and forms a hypothesis. This hypothesis is then rigorously tested, bombarded with all the data, added tests and experiments, repeated by other professionals, and if the hypothesis backs the data, it becomes Theory. Thus things such as gravity remain theory to this day. Evolution has passed muster to move from hypothesis to Theory. Creationism hasn't. And never will.

Oh, I'm a Christian, by the way. I believe the Bible is God's Word, and that Genesis 1-11 was written as a theological discourse on God rather than an historical or scientific account of what actually happened.

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#176    solar101892

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 09:16 AM

The existence of God will never be proven because God was a man made creation much like the bible. The definition of God is creator and ruler of the universe or a supreme being. We cant prove that god exists because the existence of god is an image that is created by man's perception which is different for everyone. Science wont prove God is real because it's a perception that we create.
When it comes to science and spirituality I'm not either I have a healthy balance I'm a spiritual scientist!One cant prove the other!


#177    Mr Walker

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 11:21 AM

View Postfullywired, on 16 December 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

. Post Mr Walker, on 15 December .13



What I am asking, is for you to provide evidence in a scientific sense .that would have to be repeatable, observable and conducted with a program of triple blind examiners to remove potential biasing of the results. have you made such tests and had verifiable results. if so you have evidence of gods existence, if not all you have is faith

fullywired
Don't be ridiculous You do not need to do that level of testing to know your dog is real
However

Yes the observations are repeatable and have the same outcome each time

I don't need triple blind  examiners. It would be better to have three who could see. :innocent:

I am not sure want you mean by "tests" But if you mean testing the solidity/physicality  of god, then yes. There are many ways to make such tests as one can for any real solid object. And if you mean there are other unbiased observers of those tests then again yes.  But I am not 'testing" gods existence, any more than I am testing my dogs existence  when I pat my dog If I can feel him and three other people observe him and his is reactions then this scientifically proves his solidity and existence. I think you are confusing the abilty to scientifically prove the existence of god with the  ability to transfer the evidences to a second or third hand party. So let us suppose I take a photo of god and include signed declarations from a number of observers.  This would not prove gods existence to you because you are looking for unobtainable standards of proof. I could not prove the existence of my dog to you if you had such a persistent and wilful disbelief in his existence, because there are no adequate ways to transfer proofs of his existence to you if you are sufficiently sceptical..  Not even a photo or video, a vets certificate, and a registration paper, could prove that the dog in the photo was mine unless you KNEW he was.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#178    Mr Walker

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 11:24 AM

View Postfullywired, on 16 December 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

. Post Mr Walker, on 15 December .13



What I am asking, is for you to provide evidence in a scientific sense .that would have to be repeatable, observable and conducted with a program of triple blind examiners to remove potential biasing of the results. have you made such tests and had verifiable results. if so you have evidence of gods existence, if not all you have is faith

fullywired
Ps. How would you know the entity tested and proven in these experiments,  even if they occurred , was god?

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#179    Leonardo

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 11:31 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 18 December 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Don't be ridiculous You do not need to do that level of testing to know your dog is real
However

Yes the observations are repeatable and have the same outcome each time

I don't need triple blind  examiners. It would be better to have three who could see. :innocent:

I am not sure want you mean by "tests" But if you mean testing the solidity/physicality  of god, then yes. There are many ways to make such tests as one can for any real solid object. And if you mean there are other unbiased observers of those tests then again yes.  But I am not 'testing" gods existence, any more than I am testing my dogs existence  when I pat my dog If I can feel him and three other people observe him and his is reactions then this scientifically proves his solidity and existence. I think you are confusing the abilty to scientifically prove the existence of god with the  ability to transfer the evidences to a second or third hand party. So let us suppose I take a photo of god and include signed declarations from a number of observers.  This would not prove gods existence to you because you are looking for unobtainable standards of proof. I could not prove the existence of my dog to you if you had such a persistent and wilful disbelief in his existence, because there are no adequate ways to transfer proofs of his existence to you if you are sufficiently sceptical..  Not even a photo or video, a vets certificate, and a registration paper, could prove that the dog in the photo was mine unless you KNEW he was.

View PostMr Walker, on 18 December 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

Ps. How would you know the entity tested and proven in these experiments,  even if they occurred , was god?

And, in posting this you have demonstrated why your belief in what knowledge is, is false.

The existence of dogs can be demonstrated. Thus dogs can be known to exist - and the concept "dog" known. The existence of god cannot, however, be demonstrated. Thus god cannot be known to exist, and the concept "god" cannot be known.

You claim knowledge of god, but without being able to demonstrate that the 'knowledge' you claim is falsified. You can believe, but you cannot know.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

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#180    fullywired

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 04:39 PM

Mr Walker, on 18 December 2013

No one is asking you to prove your dog exists.only you resort to the ridiculous when you insist on bringing dogs, platypus and even your wife in to the discussion .You have said it is impossible to demonstrate the existence of God ,you do need triple blind  examiners to fufil the criteria needed for proof of God .I have not set the standards of proof needed ,science has done that but because you can't meet the standards, you are trying to discredit them.You cannot accept the fact that you don't have proof only faith and whilst that may move mountains it doesn't prove the existence of God

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"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
-------Buddha (563 - 483 BC)




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