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The existence of God can never be proven

magic super powers belief god advanced technologies

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#196    fullywired

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 03:01 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 19 December 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

No Again you confuse two things. While it is impossible for me to demonstrate to you the existence of god, this is only the same as the impossibility of me demonstrating to you the existence of my dog.

  However god can demonstrate his existence to an individual just as any real entity, such as a dog, can demonstrate its existence to an individual. That is why dogs and particularly platypi are very relevant to this debate They are real,  but as individuals we only KNOW they are real when we encounter them. ALL else is a faith based acceptance of their reality. Early european scientists discredited/refused to believe in the existence of platypi when they were reported  because such animals were outside of all known science at the time.
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"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
-------Buddha (563 - 483 BC)

#197    J. K.

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 04:00 PM

If a supernatural God exists, is it feasible to impose natural limits on Him?

One's reality is another's nightmare.

#198    Mr Walker

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 09:53 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 20 December 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

Yes.

I've personally seen elephants, hippopotami, tigers, zebras, giraffes, gnus, crocodiles (and alligators), pythons, sharks, dophins, and other animals more numerous to mention.

I have never once seen a god.

Perhaps it is something to do with natural vs supernatural. And having no baseline of experience of observation of anything supernatural, I don't see how anyone can claim to know anything they have seen is supernatural.

Natural things exist in abundance, and we do not require belief or faith to acknowledge their existence. Such is not the case with supernatural things, none of which have ever been recorded as existing in fact.

Your belief in the existence of god, even as a physical being, is no doubt pleasing to you and satisfies some need you have in your life, but please do not trumpet the existence of what you believe as a fact and as knowledge unless you can back up those claims with some form of evidence.

It has nothing to do with pleasure, need or desire, or what I wanted or want from  life. God simply IS. It came into my life unwanted, unasked for, and uninvited) Like all those animals you mention, It is a natural, evolved independent  entity like them and like us (It is sapient self willed and technologically advanced) and falls into the same realm. It is we who call it supernatural because we do not comprehend it.

  You say you could believe in a platypus without ever seeing one, because it is a part of the same natural order. Perhaps you need to conceptualise god in the same way. Then, while you do not have to believe in gods existence, my knowledge of god might make more sense to you.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#199    Mr Walker

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 09:58 PM

View Postfullywired, on 20 December 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

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fullywired
lol I AGREE :devil:

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#200    Ogbin

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 03:42 AM

Hallowed Be Thy Name


I'm waiting in my cold cell, when the bell begins to chime.
Reflecting on my past life and it doesn't have much time.
'Cause at 5 o'clock they take me to the Gallows Pole,
The sands of time for me are running low.

When the priest comes to read me the last rites,
I take a look through the bars at the last sights,
Of a world that has gone very wrong for me.

Can it be that there's some sort of error?
Hard to stop the surmounting terror.
Is it really the end, not some crazy dream?

Somebody please tell me that I'm dreaming,
It's not easy to stop from screaming,
But words escape me when I try to speak.

Tears fall but why am I crying?
After all I'm not afraid of dying.
Don't I believe that there never is an end?

As the guards march me out to the courtyard,
Somebody cries from a cell "God be with you".
If there's a God then why has he let me go?

As I walk all my life drifts before me
And though the end is near I'm not sorry
Catch my soul 'cause it's willing to fly away

Mark my words please believe that my soul live on
Please don't worry now that I have gone
I've gone beyond to see the truth

When you know that your time is close at hand,
Maybe then you will begin to understand
Life down here is just a strange illusion.

Iron Maiden.

Edited by Ogbin, 23 December 2013 - 03:45 AM.


#201    Leonardo

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:01 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 20 December 2013 - 09:53 PM, said:

You say you could believe in a platypus without ever seeing one, because it is a part of the same natural order. Perhaps you need to conceptualise god in the same way. Then, while you do not have to believe in gods existence, my knowledge of god might make more sense to you.

Some peoples have worshipped animals as gods. Animals are part of this 'natural order', so the gods of these people are also part of the 'natural order'. Did these people "know god" as you do, MW?

Edited by Leonardo, 23 December 2013 - 10:02 AM.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

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#202    Mr Walker

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:15 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 23 December 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Some peoples have worshipped animals as gods. Animals are part of this 'natural order', so the gods of these people are also part of the 'natural order'. Did these people "know god" as you do, MW?
That is not the analogy I was making, but I will comment on it. I do not know the specific  answer because it depends on the relationship the humans had with the animals. God can express himself  through(and actually IS  found in ) anything from an animal to a plant to another human being. Certainly there is plenty of evidence that cromagnon humans knew god in the same sense and form that I know god. They expressed this in paintings and ritualised behaviour, as a response to their connection to the divine or cosmic consciousness. Most animists and pagans are far more  likely to be connected to god than many modern Christians, for example, because they have a sense of genuine spiritual connection to the universe, within themselves. They KNOW god is in them and all about them, due to their connection to it.

Edited by Mr Walker, 23 December 2013 - 11:16 PM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.




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