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Sandy Hook School Final Report Released


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#16    Rafterman

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 04:11 PM

If the conspiracists were honest with themselves, they'd admit that nothing in any report by any official agency would satisfy them.

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                                                                                                                                           - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World:  Science as a Candle in the Dark

#17    Babe Ruth

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 07:58 PM

View PostRafterman, on 26 November 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

If the conspiracists were honest with themselves, they'd admit that nothing in any report by any official agency would satisfy them.

That's not really true.  I would STF up if an official agency would release some videos, some still photos, whatever.  Coroner's Reports and such.

Instead, they claim to have nothing to hide, but go out of their way to hide everything.  I might have been born at night, but it wasn't last night. :innocent:


#18    Dark_Grey

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 08:03 PM

View PostRafterman, on 26 November 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

If the conspiracists were honest with themselves, they'd admit that nothing in any report by any official agency would satisfy them.

If the report was consistent, tied up all the loose ends and left nothing to interpretation, we could only conclude that it must be the whole truth. Sadly, the requirements aren't being met here.

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#19    Rafterman

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 08:31 PM

View PostDark_Grey, on 26 November 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

If the report was consistent, tied up all the loose ends and left nothing to interpretation, we could only conclude that it must be the whole truth. Sadly, the requirements aren't being met here.

When are they ever met to a conspiracists liking?  My understanding is that there is still no clear motive for what the shooter did in Newtown.  So even IF all of the other criteria were satisfied, this loose end would still remain.

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#20    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 08:31 PM

View PostRafterman, on 26 November 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

If the conspiracists were honest with themselves, they'd admit that nothing in any report by any official agency would satisfy them.

If the official conspiracy theorists were honest with themselves, they wouldn't accept a story with so many inconsistencies or narrative changes on a daily basis. It is exactly like the populace' of 1984 or V for Vendetta becoming accustom to rapid changes of news stories to fit a narrative.

Edited by Professor Buzzkill, 26 November 2013 - 08:32 PM.


#21    Rafterman

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 08:34 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 26 November 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

That's not really true.  I would STF up if an official agency would release some videos, some still photos, whatever.  Coroner's Reports and such.

Instead, they claim to have nothing to hide, but go out of their way to hide everything.  I might have been born at night, but it wasn't last night. :innocent:

How many thousands of photos and hours of video are there from 9/11 - has that satisfied the Truthers?  There's even a video of Kennedy being shot that clearly shows exactly what happened that day - has that satisfied the conspiracists?  There are mountains of unquestionable evidence that the moon landings were legitimate - has that satisfied the moon hoaxers?

"For me, it is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
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#22    Rafterman

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 08:39 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 26 November 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

If the official conspiracy theorists were honest with themselves, they wouldn't accept a story with so many inconsistencies or narrative changes on a daily basis. It is exactly like the populace' of 1984 or V for Vendetta becoming accustom to rapid changes of news stories to fit a narrative.

Other than shoddy reporting and the usual "fog of war" that took place during the actual event, how has the narrative changed over the past 12 months?

Better yet, what was the "official conspiracy" as you like to call it supposed to accomplish?  Do you still have your guns?  I still have mine.  Gun control continues to be the losing political fight that it has been for the past 30 years.  Not to mention, this grand conspiracy was supposed to have been pulled off by the same outfit that can't get a website to work after 3 years and a few billion dollars.

Edited by Rafterman, 26 November 2013 - 08:39 PM.

"For me, it is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
                                                                                                                                           - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World:  Science as a Candle in the Dark

#23    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 08:46 PM

View PostRafterman, on 26 November 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

Other than shoddy reporting and the usual "fog of war" that took place during the actual event, how has the narrative changed over the past 12 months?

Better yet, what was the "official conspiracy" as you like to call it supposed to accomplish?  Do you still have your guns?  I still have mine.  Gun control continues to be the losing political fight that it has been for the past 30 years.  Not to mention, this grand conspiracy was supposed to have been pulled off by the same outfit that can't get a website to work after 3 years and a few billion dollars.

There is more than enough detail of inconsistencies in the Sandy Hook thread. But let me highlight one of them.

If you found 6 children on your lawn in a state of distress, would you:
1) call the cops
2) try to find the parents
3) Bring them into your house and play with and feed them for 30mins before asking what happened

Once you found out that they were witnesses to a murder, would you:
1) call the cops
2) try to find the parents
3) do nothing and wait for the parents to find you, or walk them to the nearest fire station

If you picked 3, or believe that any person with a brain in their head would pick option 3, then you are a official conspiracy theorist and won't believe a thing until "former" CIA employee Anderson Cooper confirms it as true.

If you want to discuss, then please take it over to the conspiracy section, i think i have hijacked this thread enough


#24    Babe Ruth

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 02:04 PM

View PostRafterman, on 26 November 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

How many thousands of photos and hours of video are there from 9/11 - has that satisfied the Truthers?  There's even a video of Kennedy being shot that clearly shows exactly what happened that day - has that satisfied the conspiracists?  There are mountains of unquestionable evidence that the moon landings were legitimate - has that satisfied the moon hoaxers?

Most truthers don't dispute what happened that day at WTC.  They dispute only the narrative, the story, the actual perpetrators.  Even with the JFK shooting, the point is that there is much evidence that contradicts the official narrative.  The testimony of Dr. Malcolm Perry, for example, regarding the medical examination of the body.  Just as he was pressured by the Secret Service's Elmer Moore, Willy Rodriguez' testimony was heard behind closed doors, and there was no mention whatsoever of his testimony in the Final Report.

Too many times, government Final Reports are really nothing but whitewash and coverup.  From JFK's Warren Commission to 911 Commission to Murrah Building, and now at Newtown.

Simply put by the late Bob Bowman, if they have nothing to hide (as they claim), why are they hiding everything?  That's all truthers dispute.


#25    Rafterman

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 02:58 PM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 26 November 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

There is more than enough detail of inconsistencies in the Sandy Hook thread. But let me highlight one of them.

If you found 6 children on your lawn in a state of distress, would you:
1) call the cops
2) try to find the parents
3) Bring them into your house and play with and feed them for 30mins before asking what happened

Once you found out that they were witnesses to a murder, would you:
1) call the cops
2) try to find the parents
3) do nothing and wait for the parents to find you, or walk them to the nearest fire station

If you picked 3, or believe that any person with a brain in their head would pick option 3, then you are a official conspiracy theorist and won't believe a thing until "former" CIA employee Anderson Cooper confirms it as true.

If you want to discuss, then please take it over to the conspiracy section, i think i have hijacked this thread enough

So after almost a full year with countless folks looking into the grand conspiracy, producing videos, hundreds of thousands of man hours by internet commandos, and that's what you're going to put forth - cherry picking and anomaly hunting?

I know it won't make a difference, but I'll just leave this here:  https://www.metabunk...racy-hoax.1074/

The very first post is a continually updated list of debunked conspiracy theories related to Sandy Hook - including your comments about Mr. Rosen (who is now being harassed by conspiracists by the way).  You'll also note that there are a number of sites listed that have debunked the Sandy Hook conspiracy theories including Above Top Secret and The Blaze (not just former CIA agent Anderson Cooper).

"For me, it is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
                                                                                                                                           - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World:  Science as a Candle in the Dark

#26    Rafterman

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 03:06 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 27 November 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Most truthers don't dispute what happened that day at WTC.  They dispute only the narrative, the story, the actual perpetrators.  Even with the JFK shooting, the point is that there is much evidence that contradicts the official narrative.  The testimony of Dr. Malcolm Perry, for example, regarding the medical examination of the body.  Just as he was pressured by the Secret Service's Elmer Moore, Willy Rodriguez' testimony was heard behind closed doors, and there was no mention whatsoever of his testimony in the Final Report.

Too many times, government Final Reports are really nothing but whitewash and coverup.  From JFK's Warren Commission to 911 Commission to Murrah Building, and now at Newtown.

Simply put by the late Bob Bowman, if they have nothing to hide (as they claim), why are they hiding everything?  That's all truthers dispute.

Actually quite a number of them dispute what happened on 9/11.  In fact there's nothing I love more than to pop up a big bowl of popcorn and watch conspiracists go at each other.  I've also found that some of the biggest inconsistencies that drive many of these theories are either simply made up or their importance is greatly overblown - like Mr. Rosen mentioned above.  His actions that morning (if even accurate) in no way cast any doubt on what happened that day.  Again, cherry picking and anomaly hunting.

"For me, it is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
                                                                                                                                           - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World:  Science as a Candle in the Dark

#27    Babe Ruth

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 03:45 PM

View PostRafterman, on 27 November 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Actually quite a number of them dispute what happened on 9/11.  In fact there's nothing I love more than to pop up a big bowl of popcorn and watch conspiracists go at each other.  I've also found that some of the biggest inconsistencies that drive many of these theories are either simply made up or their importance is greatly overblown - like Mr. Rosen mentioned above.  His actions that morning (if even accurate) in no way cast any doubt on what happened that day.  Again, cherry picking and anomaly hunting.

In general terms was I talking Rafterman, and more on WTC than elsewhere.

Everybody understands that the towers and WTC7 came down.  Many dispute how and why they came down.

Anomaly hunting?  Good Grief, the many anomalies smack the curious and observant person in the face.  They are blatant and obvious, and the official narrative  simply does not address the anomalies, whether examining JFK, 911, Murrah, or Newtown.


#28    Gummug

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:19 AM

View PostRafterman, on 27 November 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

So after almost a full year with countless folks looking into the grand conspiracy, producing videos, hundreds of thousands of man hours by internet commandos, and that's what you're going to put forth - cherry picking and anomaly hunting?

I know it won't make a difference, but I'll just leave this here: https://www.metabunk...racy-hoax.1074/

The very first post is a continually updated list of debunked conspiracy theories related to Sandy Hook - including your comments about Mr. Rosen (who is now being harassed by conspiracists by the way).  You'll also note that there are a number of sites listed that have debunked the Sandy Hook conspiracy theories including Above Top Secret and The Blaze (not just former CIA agent Anderson Cooper).
I tried to click on your link but for some reason it didn't work...maybe it's me, sometimes I'm not so good with computers. (edited to bolden link)
2nd edit: Never mind, for some reason I can access it in this my quote, but not the original post. Go figure.

Edited by Gummug, 03 December 2013 - 07:27 AM.

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#29    Likely Guy

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:37 AM

Sandy Hook, for God's sake, was not a hoax or false flag on the American nation. It was a tragic mark in history, please accept it for what it was and let your country heal.


#30    Skep B

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 07:47 AM

We're not especially good at that.

We're more like the type to, when we hear hoeves, start expecting a pegasus being rode by Abraham Lincoln

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