Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 3 votes

Israel


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
468 replies to this topic

#1    markdohle

markdohle

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,846 posts
  • Joined:21 May 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta area

Posted 26 November 2013 - 02:02 PM

Israel



I have a friend, who is probably a genius in more ways that one. He can think rings around me and for that I like him.  I enjoy people who are smarter than me.  Yet when it comes to politics, I have trouble understanding how his mind seems to stop working.  I am not saying this because he belongs to another political party, no; it is the way he reacts on certain issues, instead of responding in a manner that would invite some sort of dialogue.  I have come away from some discussions’ disturbed, if truth be told.

We were talking about Israel a while back and again, I never seem to learn, I was surprised and appalled in how he expressed his distained for Israel.  He wants us to withdraw all support from Israel and back up the demands of the more radical neighbors who state that they seek only the complete annihilation of the Israeli state.  He believes that they are too aggressive (The Jews) and are the only ones at fault in what is happening in that part of the world.  

So this time I asked him to think upon this scenario.  It went like this.  We both live in the state Georgia in the United States.  So I said, think of Georgia as being a country, and the surrounding states are sovereign states who may have some issues with one another, even wars, but are united, for the most part in their hatred of our country.  That they only want our total destruction, there is no middle ground….at least for some of the more radical countries.  How would that affect us as a society?  Then think that the majority of the population in Georgia, were Roman Catholic, and has a history of being hated and persecuted for centuries.  Not only that but our people were killed by the millions during a world war…..how would that affect our mentality, yours and mine and our society?  Then, what if we had nuclear capabilities?   Needed for self preservation of our society, as well as having a superior fighting force, more disciplined than our enemies, brought about because we know that no one will come to our recue if we are attacked by our enemies…. again who seek only our destruction?  I don’t think that our being defensive in our approach would be paranoia at all. For what if there was one country that said that they would support us, but in reality a certain segment of the population were in fact our enemies?  It is not a situation that I would wish on any country.  Then add to the fact that we are small in population and our country is little to begin with in land mass.

My friend just looked at me and told me to go to hell and walked out of the room.  I don’t understand how an intelligent man, can’t see the situation of Israel, how they are backed into a tiny corner, with no room to turn at all.   Perhaps one day they will use a nuclear device as a last ditch effort to survive.  I think that is a real possibility.  Even if I did not like the state of Israel, I would support them for the sake of peace and to offset a nuclear incident.  

I fact I love Israel. The Jewish people have suffered a great deal in the past, and I can understand their defensive attitude, their army and their weapons.  In many ways they are alone.  As a people, small in number, they have done more for the human race than any others social entity.   In science, philosophy, religion and art, they have excelled and made this world a better place I believe.  Is the Jewish nation perfect?  Of course not….Have they make mistakes?  Yes, but can anyone tell me they would do differently if on a daily basis the lives of their wife’s and children are threatened.  I know my answer.  If I were Jewish I would be over in Israel.  Their identity survived for 2,000 years when they were dispersed, even when persecuted and killed by so called Christian peoples, they are a special people and we should be thankful for their existence.  If not for religious reasons, then for secular, philosophical and artistic ones, for sure; for truly they are a gift to the human race I believe.

Sorry for the rant.  There is an old saying, ‘Hold your friends close, but your enemies closer”.  In the case with radicals Muslims, if you hold them close, they will only gut you.  Don’t forget, radical Muslims also want our destruction as well.  Am I being paranoid, I don’t think so.   Also I don’t lump all Muslims into the radical category.  I know Muslims that are appalled at what is going on and feel despair over were this will lead for them.   I believe the ride is going to get much rougher before it gets better.  We are a primitive, tribal, violent species, who have weapons that we may be to young to have.  I think as a species we are 13 years old with way too much testosterone for our own good.


Edited by markdohle, 26 November 2013 - 02:03 PM.


#2    and then

and then

    Abyssus Abyssum Invocat

  • Member
  • 14,753 posts
  • Joined:15 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land's End

  • Because what came before never seems enough...

Posted 26 November 2013 - 02:19 PM

Your friend seems to be just another member of the world majority Mark.  The hatred is so inexplicable that I choose to believe it is supernatural in nature.  It often is seen worst in those who have never nor will ever be impacted by the actions of Israelis.  And the best argument they have to defend it is "fairness".  As if that has ever really existed anywhere at a national level.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#3    thyra

thyra

    Remote Viewer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 545 posts
  • Joined:13 Nov 2013
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 26 November 2013 - 02:39 PM

Name of israel to be given to a country is really bizzare. I always found it bizzare :)  If I were israel living some other place on earth, i would sue them :D

you will understand israel to launch nuclears off because it feels isolated and threatened but you dont understand your friend when he tells you to go to hell?

Edited by thyra, 26 November 2013 - 02:53 PM.

Posted Image


#4    and then

and then

    Abyssus Abyssum Invocat

  • Member
  • 14,753 posts
  • Joined:15 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land's End

  • Because what came before never seems enough...

Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:35 PM

View Postthyra, on 26 November 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

Name of israel to be given to a country is really bizzare. I always found it bizzare :)  If I were israel living some other place on earth, i would sue them :D

you will understand israel to launch nuclears off because it feels isolated and threatened but you dont understand your friend when he tells you to go to hell?
If that is all you got from his statement then maybe you and his friend could have lovely dinner conversations.  The issue is MUCH more complicated.  He said that
"Perhaps one day they will use a nuclear device as a last ditch effort to survive.  I think that is a real possibility."

Big difference between that and just feeling isolated and threatened - wouldn't you agree?
eta -didn't intend to make the last sentence BOLD - this software has a mind of it's own sometimes.

Edited by and then, 26 November 2013 - 05:37 PM.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#5    thyra

thyra

    Remote Viewer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 545 posts
  • Joined:13 Nov 2013
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 26 November 2013 - 06:57 PM

Yes, thats all I got from the whole conversation and still it remains so. If I had more things to say, then and now, anything else, I would gladly add. :) oh, I just did. :)

Posted Image


#6    Dark_Grey

Dark_Grey

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,806 posts
  • Joined:08 Oct 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Alberta, Canada

  • if (empty($universe)) {
    include 'reality.php';
    }

Posted 26 November 2013 - 07:17 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 26 November 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

Then, what if we had nuclear capabilities?   Needed for self preservation of our society, as well as having a superior fighting force, more disciplined than our enemies, brought about because we know that no one will come to our recue if we are attacked by our enemies.

You severely underestimate the amount of military support "government aid" Israel recieves. Let's look at who's in their corner:

USA, UK, Germany, Turkey, India, Canada, China and Czech Republic, to name a few.

They are allied with practically every Western superpower. It's not jus the alliances that are important to note here - it's also the money.

President Obama's Fiscal Year 2010 budget proposes $53.8 billion for appropriated international affairs' programs. From that budget, $5.7 billion is appropriated for foreign military financing, military education, and peacekeeping operations. From that $5.7 billion, $2.8 billion, almost 50% is appropriated for Israel.[

Does that raise any red flags? Half of the US budget for international military aid is set aside for a tiny little country in the middle-east!

Our own Prime Minister here in Canda vouched earlier this year we would reaffirm our "undying support for Israel". We already send several hundred million dollars a year. Again, we have a 1st world nation pledging support.

I'm getting tired of Israeli supporters whining about how "alone" Israel is. When Israel is being backed by the Western powers that decimate other middle-eastern countries on a whim, you begin to see the bigger picture. Israel is not alone: far from it. They are in as good a place as they can be compared to their immediate enemies who CAN'T rely on the biggest military force on the planet.

"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness."


- Alejandro Jodorowski


#7    Babe Ruth

Babe Ruth

    Non-Corporeal Being

  • Member
  • 8,714 posts
  • Joined:23 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:27North 80West

Posted 26 November 2013 - 07:56 PM

What's cool is that so many Israeli citizens are in high office in the US government.  Senators and Congressmen, Chief of Staff in the White House (once upon a time), half the federal judiciary, half the Pentagon, or at least its comptroller for a period of time, etc etc.

The federal government is virtually controlled by Israeli interests, and that's so cool. :tu:


#8    Dark_Grey

Dark_Grey

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,806 posts
  • Joined:08 Oct 2003
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Alberta, Canada

  • if (empty($universe)) {
    include 'reality.php';
    }

Posted 26 November 2013 - 07:57 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 26 November 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

What's cool is that so many Israeli citizens are in high office in the US government.  Senators and Congressmen, Chief of Staff in the White House (once upon a time), half the federal judiciary, half the Pentagon, or at least its comptroller for a period of time, etc etc.

The federal government is virtually controlled by Israeli interests, and that's so cool. :tu:

Oh right thanks for reminding me. I was going to make a point of that, too. But then again the numbers coming from the US speak for themselves.

"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness."


- Alejandro Jodorowski


#9    travelnjones

travelnjones

    Extraterrestrial Entity

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 476 posts
  • Joined:05 Jul 2007

Posted 26 November 2013 - 08:13 PM

The problem with this issue is you are called a racist if you suggest cutting funding.  Even reducing funding.  Ask in "Crap we are not doing great over here, Isreal, can you check with someone else for a couple months?" then you are called a bigot.


#10    Yamato

Yamato

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 11,855 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 26 November 2013 - 08:27 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 26 November 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

Israel



I have a friend, who is probably a genius in more ways that one. He can think rings around me and for that I like him.  I enjoy people who are smarter than me.  Yet when it comes to politics, I have trouble understanding how his mind seems to stop working.  I am not saying this because he belongs to another political party, no; it is the way he reacts on certain issues, instead of responding in a manner that would invite some sort of dialogue.  I have come away from some discussions’ disturbed, if truth be told.

We were talking about Israel a while back and again, I never seem to learn, I was surprised and appalled in how he expressed his distained for Israel.  He wants us to withdraw all support from Israel and back up the demands of the more radical neighbors who state that they seek only the complete annihilation of the Israeli state.  He believes that they are too aggressive (The Jews) and are the only ones at fault in what is happening in that part of the world.  

So this time I asked him to think upon this scenario.  It went like this.  We both live in the state Georgia in the United States.  So I said, think of Georgia as being a country, and the surrounding states are sovereign states who may have some issues with one another, even wars, but are united, for the most part in their hatred of our country.  That they only want our total destruction, there is no middle ground….at least for some of the more radical countries.  How would that affect us as a society?  Then think that the majority of the population in Georgia, were Roman Catholic, and has a history of being hated and persecuted for centuries.  Not only that but our people were killed by the millions during a world war…..how would that affect our mentality, yours and mine and our society?  Then, what if we had nuclear capabilities?   Needed for self preservation of our society, as well as having a superior fighting force, more disciplined than our enemies, brought about because we know that no one will come to our recue if we are attacked by our enemies…. again who seek only our destruction?  I don’t think that our being defensive in our approach would be paranoia at all. For what if there was one country that said that they would support us, but in reality a certain segment of the population were in fact our enemies?  It is not a situation that I would wish on any country.  Then add to the fact that we are small in population and our country is little to begin with in land mass.

My friend just looked at me and told me to go to hell and walked out of the room.  I don’t understand how an intelligent man, can’t see the situation of Israel, how they are backed into a tiny corner, with no room to turn at all.   Perhaps one day they will use a nuclear device as a last ditch effort to survive.  I think that is a real possibility.  Even if I did not like the state of Israel, I would support them for the sake of peace and to offset a nuclear incident.  

I fact I love Israel. The Jewish people have suffered a great deal in the past, and I can understand their defensive attitude, their army and their weapons.  In many ways they are alone.  As a people, small in number, they have done more for the human race than any others social entity.   In science, philosophy, religion and art, they have excelled and made this world a better place I believe.  Is the Jewish nation perfect?  Of course not….Have they make mistakes?  Yes, but can anyone tell me they would do differently if on a daily basis the lives of their wife’s and children are threatened.  I know my answer.  If I were Jewish I would be over in Israel.  Their identity survived for 2,000 years when they were dispersed, even when persecuted and killed by so called Christian peoples, they are a special people and we should be thankful for their existence.  If not for religious reasons, then for secular, philosophical and artistic ones, for sure; for truly they are a gift to the human race I believe.

Sorry for the rant.  There is an old saying, ‘Hold your friends close, but your enemies closer”.  In the case with radicals Muslims, if you hold them close, they will only gut you.  Don’t forget, radical Muslims also want our destruction as well.  Am I being paranoid, I don’t think so.   Also I don’t lump all Muslims into the radical category.  I know Muslims that are appalled at what is going on and feel despair over were this will lead for them.   I believe the ride is going to get much rougher before it gets better.  We are a primitive, tribal, violent species, who have weapons that we may be to young to have.  I think as a species we are 13 years old with way too much testosterone for our own good.


Looking at everything Jesus Christ taught us to believe in, Israel doesn't act Christian.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#11    markdohle

markdohle

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,846 posts
  • Joined:21 May 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta area

Posted 26 November 2013 - 09:34 PM

View PostYamato, on 26 November 2013 - 08:27 PM, said:

Looking at everything Jesus Christ taught us to believe in, Israel doesn't act Christian.

What government actually does, not the United States, nor any other state.  The fact is, if a world war starts, it will start from there.  Israel is surrounded by enemies, we will all be affected if a war starts there.  Oil not being the central consideration, though an important one of course.  People have no idea how unstable the world is at this time......in the end we never will, we get used to anything, then make it the new normal, until something happens that the new normal gets much, much worse.

Peace
mark


#12    markdohle

markdohle

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,846 posts
  • Joined:21 May 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta area

Posted 26 November 2013 - 09:38 PM

View Posttravelnjones, on 26 November 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

The problem with this issue is you are called a racist if you suggest cutting funding.  Even reducing funding.  Ask in "Crap we are not doing great over here, Isreal, can you check with someone else for a couple months?" then you are called a bigot.

It is not just Israel that is upset about this, other Arabs countries are also fearful of where this could lead.  Saudi Arabia says that they will now seek nuclear power in order to protect themselves, I am sure other Arab states will do the same.  The Sunni and Shia Muslims hate each other as much as they hate the Jews.

Peace
Mark

Edited by markdohle, 26 November 2013 - 09:38 PM.


#13    Yamato

Yamato

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 11,855 posts
  • Joined:08 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 26 November 2013 - 10:07 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 26 November 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

What government actually does, not the United States, nor any other state.  The fact is, if a world war starts, it will start from there.  Israel is surrounded by enemies, we will all be affected if a war starts there.  Oil not being the central consideration, though an important one of course.  People have no idea how unstable the world is at this time......in the end we never will, we get used to anything, then make it the new normal, until something happens that the new normal gets much, much worse.

Peace
mark
There's hatred amongst our own people we could focus on too but like all hatred, what's the point?

Peace, hope, and love; all three.  When we let hatred shape our world view and govt policies, we violate Christ's teachings in the most deliberate fashion.

"The power to declare war, including the power of judging the causes of war, is fully and exclusively vested in the Legislature.  The Executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question" ~ James Madison
"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein
"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

#14    markdohle

markdohle

    Alien Abducter

  • Member
  • 4,846 posts
  • Joined:21 May 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Atlanta area

Posted 26 November 2013 - 10:52 PM

View PostYamato, on 26 November 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

There's hatred amongst our own people we could focus on too but like all hatred, what's the point?

Peace, hope, and love; all three.  When we let hatred shape our world view and govt policies, we violate Christ's teachings in the most deliberate fashion.

I think we do live in a fallen world, one that is pain and chaos and seems to only be getting worse.  As a Christin, all I can do is pray, hope and seek to deepen my faith and hope in Christ Jesus as well as seeking deeper healing so I can love more profoundly.

Peace
mark


#15    Sir Wearer of Hats

Sir Wearer of Hats

    SCIENCE!

  • Member
  • 11,643 posts
  • Joined:08 Nov 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Queensland, Australia.

Posted 26 November 2013 - 11:48 PM

Israel has a right to exist.
It IS surrounded by people who want it destroyed.
Do we as people of good conscience allow millions of innocent people to die because it's too much hard work?

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users