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"Gay Snub" B&B Owners Lose Case


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#1    Leonardo

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 01:40 PM

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The owners of a Christian guesthouse who were ordered to pay damages for turning away a gay couple have lost their UK Supreme Court fight.

Hazelmary and Peter Bull refused to let civil partners Steven Preddy and Martyn Hall stay in a double room at Chymorvah House in Marazion in Cornwall in 2008.

The couple, who had already lost cases at Bristol County Court and the Court of Appeal, said they were "saddened".

Mr and Mrs Bull have said they regard any sex outside marriage as a "sin".

source

I'm glad our Supreme Court upheld the complaint by the couple denied their stay. It cements even further the notion that a person's religious belief dictates only how they behave - not how they should expect others to behave.

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#2    Child of Bast

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 02:02 PM

Unfortunately here in the US, the ruling would be reversed. I totally agree with your opinion though.

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#3    and then

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 02:23 PM

This is not so clear cut to me.  On the one hand they are running a business to the public and as such must accept ALL the public I imagine.  On the other, if their faith says it is wrong to condone or even help perpetuate behavior considered to be sin then why does their choice have to be their faith or their living?  I don't see it as a hate issue.  But then I don't pretend to know all the circumstances either.

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#4    praetorian-legio XIII

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 04:28 PM

so in the UK you don't have the "Management has the right to refuse service"

Although I don't agree with the owners at all, I still feel they should have the right to serve or not serve whomever they please for whatever reason(s) they deem fit.


#5    The Sky Scanner

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 04:36 PM

View Postand then, on 27 November 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

This is not so clear cut to me.  On the one hand they are running a business to the public and as such must accept ALL the public I imagine.  On the other, if their faith says it is wrong to condone or even help perpetuate behavior considered to be sin then why does their choice have to be their faith or their living?  I don't see it as a hate issue.  But then I don't pretend to know all the circumstances either.

They played it wrong i'm afraid, and made their beliefs part of the issue. On paper if you are a service provider then you can't discriminate, however (I run a small transport company) and I certainly don't provide a service to just anyone, i'm simply 'over booked and no vehicles available' if I don't trust the enquiry.

If they felt that strongly about it they shouldn't have made it an issue regarding belief, and simply said they were over booked (clerical error) and provided a number for a nearby establishment that could help them, or found them alternative accommodation if required.

Edited by Sky Scanner, 27 November 2013 - 04:36 PM.

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#6    Leonardo

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 04:48 PM

View Postand then, on 27 November 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

This is not so clear cut to me.  On the one hand they are running a business to the public and as such must accept ALL the public I imagine.  On the other, if their faith says it is wrong to condone or even help perpetuate behavior considered to be sin then why does their choice have to be their faith or their living?  I don't see it as a hate issue.  But then I don't pretend to know all the circumstances either.

And it's their faith - not the faith of their guests. The behaviour their faith should modify is their own - not that of those who do not necessarily share their beliefs. They have no right to impose their beliefs on others.


View Postpraetorian-legio XIII, on 27 November 2013 - 04:28 PM, said:

so in the UK you don't have the "Management has the right to refuse service"

Although I don't agree with the owners at all, I still feel they should have the right to serve or not serve whomever they please for whatever reason(s) they deem fit.

Management certainly does have the right to refuse service in the UK. They simply do not have the right to discriminate unlawfully - as was the case with these B&B owners.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#7    SilentHunter

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 06:21 PM

View Postand then, on 27 November 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

This is not so clear cut to me.  On the one hand they are running a business to the public and as such must accept ALL the public I imagine.  On the other, if their faith says it is wrong to condone or even help perpetuate behavior considered to be sin then why does their choice have to be their faith or their living?  I don't see it as a hate issue.  But then I don't pretend to know all the circumstances either.

I think they should advertise it as a Christain values hotel. Problem solved.


#8    Kaa-Tzik

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 07:26 PM

View PostSilentHunter, on 27 November 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

I think they should advertise it as a Christain values hotel. Problem solved.
That is the logical solution of course. But, the situation in UK, and many other countries, is anything but logical. If they attempted this solution I suspect they would be stamped on very hard and allusions made to the past and "No coloreds" signs.


#9    SheWomanCatTypeThing

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 07:34 PM

Mr and Mrs Bull have said they regard any sex outside marriage as a "sin"
Do they ask all their guests show them their wedding certificate, as proof of marriage then?

Edited by SheWomanCatTypeThing, 27 November 2013 - 07:35 PM.


#10    Cassea

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 07:37 PM

I agree that they should have handled it better. I suppose they have no option but to turn them down if they can't condone extra marital sex.  Unfortunately for the gay community they are much easier to determine than a straight couple that comes in.  Poor guys, poor hotel.  What a mess.

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#11    Kaa-Tzik

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 07:53 PM

View PostSheWomanCatTypeThing, on 27 November 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

Mr and Mrs Bull have said they regard any sex outside marriage as a "sin"
Do they ask all their guests show them their wedding certificate, as proof of marriage then?
Highly unlikely because they are probably hypocrits anyway. The solution would be if they, or anybody, could clearly state that their establishment was for this or that group of people, but the law will say this is discrimination and hammer them. This situation seems to be the fault of the law, not of either party in this case.


#12    Leonardo

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 09:14 PM

View PostSheWomanCatTypeThing, on 27 November 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

Mr and Mrs Bull have said they regard any sex outside marriage as a "sin"
Do they ask all their guests show them their wedding certificate, as proof of marriage then?

View PostCassea, on 27 November 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

I agree that they should have handled it better. I suppose they have no option but to turn them down if they can't condone extra marital sex.

The gay couple only asked for a room with a double bed. They didn't ask for a room to have sex in. I would suggest the couple who own the B&B probably sleep together, but do not always have sex when doing so.

While it would be natural to assume a gay couple do have sex, - and this couple might have had they been given the room - the fact is they asked for a double bed to sleep in. It is the owners who assume all people staying the night have sex.

Edited by Leonardo, 27 November 2013 - 09:15 PM.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#13    Child of Bast

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 09:32 PM

While I am gay, I have traveled with friends who aren't, yet are of my own sex. If it were to happen that we were forced to share a bed for - whatever reason - I'm sure people like these B&B owners would make all kinds of assumptions.

'A phantom,' said my Uncle Mycroft, who had just materialised, 'is essentially a heteromorphic wave pattern that gains solidity when the apparition converts thermal energy from the surroundings to visible light. It's a fascinating process and I'm amazed no one has thought of harnessing it - a holographic TV that could operate from the heat given off by an average-size guinea pig.' ~ First Among Sequels, Jasper Fforde

#14    Michelle

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 09:42 PM

Three of my girlfriends and I vacation together sometimes and always get one room with two double beds to cut costs. Who cares what anybody thinks?


#15    Razer

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 09:46 PM

I'm not gay but believe gay people should have the same rights as everyone else.  However, I firmly believe that the owners of an establishment have the right to decide who they want to serve.  I don't believe it is the role of government to force private business owners to serve people they don't want to have in their establishment.  The positive flip side for society is owners will show their true colors and we can boycott them out of existence. I would actually prefer to know what sort of person I'm giving my money to.  That way I can vote with my money.  If they want to discriminate, fine with me and good to know that up front, so they won't be getting any of my dollars.

Edited by Razer, 27 November 2013 - 09:48 PM.





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