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Is interstellar travel by wormhole possible?

wrmhole faster than light travel time travel

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#1    spacecowboy342

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 01:20 PM

I have been wondering about the idea of using wormholes to travel between stars. I know FTL travel is considered impossible but as a thought experiment I was imagining a race between a FTL spacecraft vs one travelling by wormhole. Suppose in this race a FTL craft travels 1000 light years in an hour. They would overtake light rays which had been travelling from earth for 1000 years so training a telescope back towards earth you would see it as it was 1000 years earlier. Does this mean you have truly gone backward in time? Now suppose in this race a craft takes an hour to open a wormhole and travel through it to the same point overtaking those same light rays, Does this show that wormhole travel would also send you backward in time despite the fact that you did not actually travel faster than light? Does this show that wormhole travel might be impossible due to causality problems?


#2    Mentalcase

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 01:54 PM

To answer that question correctly would mean we understand the characteristics of a wormhole. Sure, we have theories, but it is all speculative at best. Especially since most of our theories include going through a black hole to enter said wormhole. We already know there is no possible way we could last because, of gravity. Perhaps, creating a wormhole would be a safer alternative. Then we just have to figure out how to create one!

Edited by Mentalcase, 28 November 2013 - 01:57 PM.

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#3    joc

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:00 PM

A = Static Travel at 1000 lyph
B = Fumbling with the locks of a Wormhole for an hour.

What if C = Traveling through the Wormhole at 10,000 lyph?  And it only took seconds to unlock the wormhole?

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#4    spacecowboy342

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:15 PM

View PostMentalcase, on 28 November 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

To answer that question correctly would mean we understand the characteristics of a wormhole. Sure, we have theories, but it is all speculative at best. Especially since most of our theories include going through a black hole to enter said wormhole. We already know there is no possible way we could last because, of gravity. Perhaps, creating a wormhole would be a safer alternative. Then we just have to figure out how to create one!
Yeah I don't know if it would be possible to create one but as I understand it the real problem is keeping it stable and not closing off almost immediately. But assuming you could overcome this does it necessarily send you back in time? It appears that way to me but I'm not sure. If so I'm thinking it might be ruled out as causality violation could result otherwise.


#5    spacecowboy342

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:23 PM

View Postjoc, on 28 November 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

A = Static Travel at 1000 lyph
B = Fumbling with the locks of a Wormhole for an hour.

What if C = Traveling through the Wormhole at 10,000 lyph?  And it only took seconds to unlock the wormhole?
I was only using that hour as an arbitrary thing to show that if FTL travel really would send you backwards in time I would think that wormhole travel would as well. You would overtake light that had been travelling for a thousand years so training your telescope on earth would give you the same images as FTL travel would have. Does this show that you have gone backwards in time? And travelling back through your wormhole, what then would you find?


#6    Mentalcase

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:35 PM

I think you would be looking back into time and not actually going back. For instance, many of the stars in our night sky don't exist in that state anymore. However, it may take 500 light years for us to see the super nova. See what I mean? We are viewing the past, even though, currently the star actually doesn't exist.

Edited by Mentalcase, 28 November 2013 - 02:35 PM.

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#7    joc

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:46 PM

View Postspacecowboy342, on 28 November 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

I was only using that hour as an arbitrary thing to show that if FTL travel really would send you backwards in time I would think that wormhole travel would as well. You would overtake light that had been travelling for a thousand years so training your telescope on earth would give you the same images as FTL travel would have. Does this show that you have gone backwards in time? And travelling back through your wormhole, what then would you find?

I have to look at things visually sometimes...so...here is the diagram of what you are describing.  Is Time defined as what is relative to the Speed of Light?
Scenario...You live on a planet far away.  Traveling at the speed of light it would take you 40 years to get to Earth...but...the wormhole allowed you to travel to Earth in 4 years.  You just gained 36 years on Earth time.  If time is relative to the speed of light I would have to think the anser to  your question is yes.
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Edited by joc, 28 November 2013 - 02:48 PM.

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#8    spacecowboy342

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 02:58 PM

View PostMentalcase, on 28 November 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

I think you would be looking back into time and not actually going back. For instance, many of the stars in our night sky don't exist in that state anymore. However, it may take 500 light years for us to see the super nova. See what I mean? We are viewing the past, even though, currently the star actually doesn't exist.
Yeah but then does it follow that the same would be true of FTL travel? I have always heard that travelling faster than light would cause time to reverse for you. If travelling by wormhole got you to the same point and looking in you telescope gave you the same view then would you not have gone backward in time as well? Logically I would think your assessment is correct but does this mean that FTL travel wouldn't actually reverse time either?


#9    spacecowboy342

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 03:00 PM

View Postjoc, on 28 November 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

I have to look at things visually sometimes...so...here is the diagram of what you are describing.  Is Time defined as what is relative to the Speed of Light?
Scenario...You live on a planet far away.  Traveling at the speed of light it would take you 40 years to get to Earth...but...the wormhole allowed you to travel to Earth in 4 years.  You just gained 36 years on Earth time.  If time is relative to the speed of light I would have to think the anser to  your question is yes.
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That makes sense but then reversing your course back through the wormhole or opening a new one to travel back to earth could you conceivably arrive before you left?


#10    joc

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 03:07 PM

View Postspacecowboy342, on 28 November 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

That makes sense but then reversing your course back through the wormhole or opening a new one to travel back to earth could you conceivably arrive before you left?
I would think so..if..you traveled back through the wormhole at a speed faster than that which got you through the first time.
Like, you travel through the wormhole...actual time expended 4 years...you travel back through the wormhole...another 4 years...so on Earth 8 years has passed since you left...unless you traveled back through the wormhole at 8 times the speed of light.  Then, on Earth, it would appear that you stepped into the wormhole...and immediately stepped out of it.
Does that make sense.

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#11    spud the mackem

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 04:11 PM

Wormholes in space, hell I hope the worm that made them never turns up or we're all in deep doo-doo.
I would rate wormholes in space as a pure figment of some mad scientists imagination, probably derived from Star Wars. Warp 5 Scottie,flank speed.

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#12    spacecowboy342

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 04:28 PM

View Postspud the mackem, on 28 November 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

Wormholes in space, hell I hope the worm that made them never turns up or we're all in deep doo-doo.
I would rate wormholes in space as a pure figment of some mad scientists imagination, probably derived from Star Wars. Warp 5 Scottie,flank speed.
Maybe mad scientists imagination but I have seen a lot of speculation about them from a lot of scientists. I'm thinking travel through them may be impossible even if they are possible to create


#13    joc

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 04:34 PM

View Postspud the mackem, on 28 November 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

Wormholes in space, hell I hope the worm that made them never turns up or we're all in deep doo-doo.
I would rate wormholes in space as a pure figment of some mad scientists imagination, probably derived from Star Wars. Warp 5 Scottie,flank speed.
As per my diagram...rudimentary as it may be...many scientists and physicists think that space is warped...light would therefore travel along the warp...as I understand it a blackhole could create a worm hole if enough of the dark matter of interstellar space was sucked into the blackhole thereby creating a 'hole' in the fabric of space.  How one would ever find a hole in space I do not know.

...sort of like a funnel cloud ....sucking up interstellar space ...rearranging it in such a way that the 'warp' of space is overcome and a 'wormhole' is created.

Edited by joc, 28 November 2013 - 04:38 PM.

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#14    Beany

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 06:39 PM

View PostMentalcase, on 28 November 2013 - 02:35 PM, said:

I think you would be looking back into time and not actually going back. For instance, many of the stars in our night sky don't exist in that state anymore. However, it may take 500 light years for us to see the super nova. See what I mean? We are viewing the past, even though, currently the star actually doesn't exist.

I never thought of it like that. So it's sort of like what Gertrude Stein said of Oakland, CA: "There's no there there."
I'm guessing there's someway to extrapolate what might currently be there if/when we finally reach a far away place? The more I think about this, the weirder it gets. I often wish I had the kind of mind that understoodand retained this kind of information better.


#15    spud the mackem

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 10:32 PM

View Postjoc, on 28 November 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

As per my diagram...rudimentary as it may be...many scientists and physicists think that space is warped...light would therefore travel along the warp...as I understand it a blackhole could create a worm hole if enough of the dark matter of interstellar space was sucked into the blackhole thereby creating a 'hole' in the fabric of space.  How one would ever find a hole in space I do not know.

...sort of like a funnel cloud ....sucking up interstellar space ...rearranging it in such a way that the 'warp' of space is overcome and a 'wormhole' is created.
I get your point, but we don't want to be anywhere near a black hole, and can a wormhole actually be created in the vacuum of space, I still think its pure science fiction, sorry no offence meant.

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