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Nuclear Deal With Iran Prelude to War

iran israel usa prelude war

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#31    and then

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:45 AM

View PostYamato, on 11 December 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

Well since you're not a nuclear engineer, I won't be consulting with you for information.  You don't even have a source for this.   They opened up their facilities to even greater scrutiny when they were already under the greatest scrutiny of any nuclear power in history. If we go with your kool aid fears that they have a nuclear weapons program, the unprecedented transparency is going to reveal that.   Then you'll accept that information when it comes and use it to fear monger and war monger over.  But for some reason, you don't allow yourself that capability at this time.  You'll accept the benefits of it when they come however.
http://www.whitehous...public-iran-s-n

You will note that these are the changes I stated earlier.  They give up NO centrifuges.  They have 19000 operating.
They neutralize their stocks of 20% back to below 5% - takes about 2 weeks to make it 20% again.  They do not create any new 3.5% (they already have enough to build 4 bombs once it is refined to 95% - a matter of about 6 weeks with the existing centrifuges.  The "unprecedented access" is mostly an onsite inspection of centrifuges and their components.  Since they aren't needing any more centrifuges to handle a weapon construction -big whoop.  Actual inspection of Natanz and Fordow is remote - they are going to allow IAEA to look at cctv footage.  I have long since accepted that Iran will eventually have their bomb.  They have the knowledge and the infrastructure and there is no going back - what irks me is the number of hard headed idiots that keep parrotting the silliness about them not wanting a bomb.  No one goes through what these leaders have put their populations through just on some principle of rights.  Neither do they go to the expense of hardened underground and redundant facilities for enrichment just for electric power generation.  But heaven forbid we admit - even in the slightest way - that someone just might be correct about their ultimate intentions.  You're always bellyaching about money  - hope you get wallet shock when the mullahs decide to play around with the price of fuel just because they can.  When they have an arsenal of weapons they will be untouchable - just like crazy cousin Kim in NK.  Only HE doesn't sit on a chokepoint for a huge amount of the world's oil.

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#32    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 08:06 AM

* You now seem to be saying   No one goes through what these leaders have put their populations through just on some principle of rights , so does that mean that you're now beginning to have second thoughts about the right of Israel to visit biblical retribution on this and any other country if they pose an existential threat to Israel, or would it be regrettable if these countries were wiped off the map, but sadly it would be the people of these countries' own fault for not throwing off their leadership?

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#33    Yamato

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 11:22 AM

View Postand then, on 12 December 2013 - 01:45 AM, said:

http://www.whitehous...public-iran-s-n

You will note that these are the changes I stated earlier.  They give up NO centrifuges.  They have 19000 operating.
They neutralize their stocks of 20% back to below 5% - takes about 2 weeks to make it 20% again.  They do not create any new 3.5% (they already have enough to build 4 bombs once it is refined to 95% - a matter of about 6 weeks with the existing centrifuges.  The "unprecedented access" is mostly an onsite inspection of centrifuges and their components.  Since they aren't needing any more centrifuges to handle a weapon construction -big whoop.  Actual inspection of Natanz and Fordow is remote - they are going to allow IAEA to look at cctv footage.  I have long since accepted that Iran will eventually have their bomb.  They have the knowledge and the infrastructure and there is no going back - what irks me is the number of hard headed idiots that keep parrotting the silliness about them not wanting a bomb.  No one goes through what these leaders have put their populations through just on some principle of rights.  Neither do they go to the expense of hardened underground and redundant facilities for enrichment just for electric power generation.  But heaven forbid we admit - even in the slightest way - that someone just might be correct about their ultimate intentions.  You're always bellyaching about money  - hope you get wallet shock when the mullahs decide to play around with the price of fuel just because they can.  When they have an arsenal of weapons they will be untouchable - just like crazy cousin Kim in NK.  Only HE doesn't sit on a chokepoint for a huge amount of the world's oil.
Drek from the Obama Administration is your source for your claims that the deal Obama supports did nothing.   That's a rich attempt at convincing me.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#34    and then

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 03:09 PM

View PostYamato, on 12 December 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

Drek from the Obama Administration is your source for your claims that the deal Obama supports did nothing.   That's a rich attempt at convincing me.
You greatly overestimate yourself Uncle Yam.  I post the material to show how biased and even willing to lie you seem to be to make your points.

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 12 December 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:


* You now seem to be saying   No one goes through what these leaders have put their populations through just on some principle of rights , so does that mean that you're now beginning to have second thoughts about the right of Israel to visit biblical retribution on this and any other country if they pose an existential threat to Israel, or would it be regrettable if these countries were wiped off the map, but sadly it would be the people of these countries' own fault for not throwing off their leadership?
You seem intent on proving that I am inconsistent.  If you disagree with me then make a case WHY any country WOULD - deprive their people to the point of making them want to revolt just to achieve electricity from a source that will(maybe) add a little money to their treasury.  Neither I nor Israel have deprived the Iranians of anything - their government chooses to act in a way that the western nations find very questionable and potentially warlike.  They are on a path to create a nuclear weapon.  They boast of destroying another UN nation.  Rational human beings get justly nervous when those two things go hand in hand.  But to someone who is all about being a contrarian it doesn't matter because you THINK it will never actually disrupt your life.  And in that assumption the sage Colonel will be dead wrong.

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#35    Yamato

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 12:21 AM

View Postand then, on 12 December 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

You greatly overestimate yourself Uncle Yam.  I post the material to show how biased and even willing to lie you seem to be to make your points.[size=4]You seem intent on proving that I am inconsistent.  If you disagree with me then make a case WHY any country WOULD - deprive their people to the point of making them want to revolt just to achieve electricity from a source that will(maybe) add a little money to their treasury.  Neither I nor Israel have deprived the Iranians of anything - their government chooses to act in a way that the western nations find very questionable and potentially warlike.  They are on a path to create a nuclear weapon.  They boast of destroying another UN nation.  Rational human beings get justly nervous when those two things go hand in hand.  But to someone who is all about being a contrarian it doesn't matter because you THINK it will never actually disrupt your life.  And in that assumption the sage Colonel will be dead wrong.
Still blowing smoke and mirrors in the daily Zionist dog and pony show.   There is no evidence of a weapons program in Iran, they're the most inspected country in IAEA history, they have a right to a nuclear program by treaty, and they're being sanctioned economy wide.  Again you're a total space cadet when it comes to understanding what liberty is.  If I uprooted you and your family if you even have one out of your house, blaming you for hating me isn't a valid excuse for what I did.  That's absurd.   But, throw common sense out the window and use the hypocrisy to excuse your favorite terrorist group in the world.  That's what you do.

I'm biased to dealing with the problems caused in the world by having too much liberty, not the problems caused by not having enough of it.   You relish in the Statist practice of oppressing it.   You insist on the problems caused by denying it by force.  

This is about tyranny vs. liberty.   Willful amnesia will set in once again and you'll forget all about my principle when it's time to pick another booger to fear and war monger about.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#36    and then

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 12:39 AM

If they have no intent to build weapons then the labs at Parchin military base should be opened for inspection.  What do they do instead of opening?  They bulldoze buildings where the suspected testing occurred, then SCRAPE and REMOVE soil so that no testing can prove that nuclear materials were ever there.  Are you really that soft upstairs?  Or is arguing just for the sake of arguing a hobby for you?  I don't care about your Peter Pan version of peace harmony and universal love of mankind when one of those you want to sing kumbaya with has proven through acts of treachery for decades that they want my country destroyed.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#37    Yamato

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 07:53 AM

Paranoia will destroya.  I bet "they" want to destroy our country in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Egypt too.   Let's nerf the world.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#38    Frank Merton

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 08:05 AM

I think we need to give the Iranians the benefit of the doubt for a few more months, to see how it develops, but I must say it seems to me "and then" has specific things to worry about and the others here just have insults.


#39    Yamato

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 08:15 AM

I'm "Pali Boy", no insult there.

People who resort to name calling are losers, generally speaking.  Losing a debate on substance would spawn such behavior, among other things.

I don't see what a few more months will do decisively towards shutting up the establishment.  Mucking around in other peoples' business is a fulltime job that has no expiration date.   What is this implied change of policy you're referring to after a few months of benefit, Frank?   What is Vietnam going to sit out on while my tax money pays for it again, this time?

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#40    Frank Merton

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 09:00 AM

View PostYamato, on 14 December 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

I'm "Pali Boy", no insult there.

People who resort to name calling are losers, generally speaking.  Losing a debate on substance would spawn such behavior, among other things.
Since I never see substance from you I can draw my conclusions.


#41    Frank Merton

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 09:01 AM

The point about a few more months is that is when the really substantive agreement is supposed to be reached.  I guess you are ignorant about what was agreed to.


#42    Stellar

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 08:11 PM

View PostYamato, on 14 December 2013 - 08:15 AM, said:

I'm "Pali Boy", no insult there.

People who resort to name calling are losers, generally speaking.  Losing a debate on substance would spawn such behavior, among other things.


Ironic, considering every time I see a post of yours it contains at least one form of insult or name calling. Perhaps you'd be better received if that ended?

"I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent."

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#43    Yamato

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 07:46 AM

View PostStellar, on 14 December 2013 - 08:11 PM, said:

Ironic, considering every time I see a post of yours it contains at least one form of insult or name calling. Perhaps you'd be better received if that ended?
Examples, please.  If it's "every time" that shouldn't be hard.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#44    Yes_Man

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 05:12 PM

Is this actually going anywhere? another Israel thread derailed by bickering


#45    and then

and then

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 08:06 PM

View PostThe New Richard Nixon, on 17 December 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Is this actually going anywhere? another Israel thread derailed by bickering
Curious, isn't it?

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...





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