redhen Posted December 5, 2013 #26 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Legal persons? Do they need to start paying tax? When they kill another chimp in the wild, do they then go to jail? Conferring personhood on chimps does not automatically mean the have to take on all the responsibilities that adult humans do. There are many humans that do not pay any tax, specifically Indians, who until not very long ago were also NOT considered persons, neither were women or black slaves. There are also many humans who commit murder but do not go to jail; juveniles and the criminally insane. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted December 5, 2013 #27 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Adding to what Redhen said, 'personhood' does not mean "human being". As has been noted, a corporate entity is a legal 'person', but does not have human rights - those only apply to human beings. Legally, conferring 'personhood' status on other animals would not necessarily prohibit them being used for research and/or experimentation - or being kept as pets. The group undertaking this action may, or may not, be aware of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freetoroam Posted December 5, 2013 #28 Share Posted December 5, 2013 How are you going to get a chimp to pay tax? You will not need to if they get a job working for Amazon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJNYC Posted December 5, 2013 #29 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Bravo! I support helping these animals so that no research is done on them and that they are no longer held captive for our entertainment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonshadow60 Posted December 5, 2013 #30 Share Posted December 5, 2013 All life should have our respect, no matter which species. Kindness doesn't cost anything. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted December 5, 2013 #31 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Give it a year, someone tries to marry a monkey. Then everyone's gonna feel reeeeeeal stupid over the gay marriage argument. Huh? What 'gay marriage argument'? You mean the idiotic argument that if we allow people of the same gender to marry then we have no reason to not allow people to marry monkeys? Because it never occurred to some of these same people that the ability to consent to a marriage is kinda important? I don't think you're assigning the reeeeeeal stupidity where it accurately belongs if so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skep B Posted December 6, 2013 #32 Share Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) Hah, no im not saying that at all. I'm saying that gay marriage isn't gonna really seem like that big a deal once monkey marriage is on the table. also, making fun of the "reeeeeeal" thing? rude Edited December 6, 2013 by Kelevra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted December 6, 2013 #33 Share Posted December 6, 2013 OK, we give apes (why just chimps?) human status but because of their limited intelligence we define them as permanent minors who never reach the age of consent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skep B Posted December 6, 2013 #34 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Just to clarify I was only making a joke about monkey marriage. Once the human/chimp hybrids happen though, sure they're fair game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highdesert50 Posted December 6, 2013 #35 Share Posted December 6, 2013 It seems most sentient beings seek the same be it safety, comfort, nourishment ... We are really not that different. What can distinguish us, though, is the ability to empathize. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artaxerxes Posted December 6, 2013 #36 Share Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) I agree that Whales, dolphins, porpoises, Elephants, Gorillas, Chimpanzees, Bonobos, Orangutangs, Gibbons, and perhaps a few more obviously sentient and conscious species should have all have "special person" status and be free from torture, enslavement, and captivity. Edited December 6, 2013 by Artaxerxes 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted December 6, 2013 #37 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I agree that Whales, dolphins, porpoises, Elephants, Gorillas, Chimpanzees, Bonobos, Orangutangs, Gibbons, and perhaps a few more obviously sentient and conscious species should have all have "special person" status and be free from torture, enslavement, and captivity. Wouldn't "special animal" work just as well. Given the same rights were outlined. Seems to me this is about rights, not about being a "person". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DieChecker Posted December 6, 2013 #38 Share Posted December 6, 2013 How are you going to get a chimp to pay tax? Lock 'em up till he pays, or someone pays for him. If they are property, then the owner should pay, just like with old time slavery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il-Hares Posted December 6, 2013 #39 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I agree that Whales, dolphins, porpoises, Elephants, Gorillas, Chimpanzees, Bonobos, Orangutangs, Gibbons, and perhaps a few more obviously sentient and conscious species should have all have "special person" status and be free from torture, enslavement, and captivity. Although I'm 1000% in favour of protecting all those animals mentioned - what about other species? For ex Pigs are said to be mentally at par with 3 yr old humans - would this special person status be given to them too? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundew Posted December 6, 2013 #40 Share Posted December 6, 2013 All life should have our respect, no matter which species. Kindness doesn't cost anything. Does that include mosquitos and roaches? 'Cause I kill the little buggers on sight. Of course we should be kind to animals, but giving animals legal status might open up a whole Pandora's box of unintended consequences. Call me cynical, but I have a feeling it will be lawyers, not animals, that will reap the benefits before it's all said and done. Don't we already have laws against animal cruelty? And regulations regarding the keeping of exotic pets? If these regulations are deemed insufficient, then update and clarify them. If they are being ignored now, piling new ones on top of old will likely not solve the problem. Also this new status could possibly hamper zoos from keeping these primates, and while we may not like to see animals in zoos, the truth is their natural habitat is shrinking and may be gone in a few decades, so you may be forced into a situation that you keep them zoos or your don't have them as living organisms. Truly a dilemma. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightly Posted December 6, 2013 #41 Share Posted December 6, 2013 The law firm representing NonHuman Rights Project in the lawsuits . Chimp Chimp & Chimp 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted December 7, 2013 #42 Share Posted December 7, 2013 (edited) Hah, no im not saying that at all. I'm saying that gay marriage isn't gonna really seem like that big a deal once monkey marriage is on the table. True enough, I get what you're saying. also, making fun of the "reeeeeeal" thing? rude Ha, okay, I'll keep that in mind. Doesn't seem like it's rude when I specifically said "if so"; since that's not what you meant then I'm obviously then not referring to you. I don't know how familiar you are with anti-gay marriage 'arguments', but a popular one is that if we allow people of the same gender to marry then what grounds do we have to say that someone can't marry a monkey or their dog. The part I quoted from you could be read in that vein, but good on you that that is not what you meant. Edited December 7, 2013 by Liquid Gardens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Liquid Gardens Posted December 7, 2013 #43 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Just to clarify I was only making a joke about monkey marriage. No that's my bad, I misunderstood you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skep B Posted December 7, 2013 #44 Share Posted December 7, 2013 All good then, glad we could come to am amicable place from the misunderstanding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZaraKitty Posted December 13, 2013 #45 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Broad topic, today I watched The Cove (documentary) and it was amazing, I also watched Black Fish. Both about the way we abuse marine animals even though there is evidence they're sentient beings, like us. I think we should grant the freedom to avoidance of pain, food, shelter and love to everything but that's just the communist/hippy in me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathya Posted December 16, 2013 #46 Share Posted December 16, 2013 Why not? There's one in the white house... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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