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Are we living in a holographic universe ?


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#1    Socio

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 02:02 PM

http://www.nature.co...ologram-1.14328


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A team of physicists has provided some of the clearest evidence yet that our Universe could be just one big projection.

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In two papers posted on the arXiv repository, Yoshifumi Hyakutake of Ibaraki University in Japan and his colleagues now provide, if not an actual proof, at least compelling evidence that Maldacena’s conjecture is true.

In one paper2, Hyakutake computes the internal energy of a black hole, the position of its event horizon (the boundary between the black hole and the rest of the Universe), its entropy and other properties based on the predictions of string theory as well as the effects of so-called virtual particles that continuously pop into and out of existence. In the other3, he and his collaborators calculate the internal energy of the corresponding lower-dimensional cosmos with no gravity. The two computer calculations match.

Trying to wrap my head around this, if it is a hologram then to what purpose?


#2    Merc14

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 02:46 PM

View PostSocio, on 11 December 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

Trying to wrap my head around this, if it is a hologram then to what purpose?

I don't think it is anything one can visualize but does proviidede a mathematical basis to test other theories...or something. :huh:  Sorry, way above my pay grade.

Believing when there is no compelling evidence is a mistake.  The idea is to withhold belief until there is compelling evidence and if the universe does not comply with our predispositions, okay, then we have the wrenching obligation to accommodate to the way the universe really is.  - Carl Sagan

Who is more humble, the scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us or somebody who says everything in this book should be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of the human beings involved in the writing of this legend - Carl Sagan

#3    keithisco

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 03:19 PM

What I am not understanding is how anyone can determine the internal energy of a Black Hole. Using gravitational co-ordinates then one can determine the Event Horizon distance from the singularity, what cannot be known (almost by definition) are what other energies are being expressed within the singularity itself. These energies are unknowable currently. It is just as valid to state that these energies are only expressed in another boundary Universe.

Einstein did not believe in Black holes, but could not articulate why. It was beyond his own terms of reference.


#4    third_eye

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 04:20 PM

I wonder if this takes 'implicate order' into consideration ...


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The ink-in-glycerine model of the relationship between the implicate and explicate orders
We will now outline the promised (mechanical) analogy (given by BOHM, 1980) that visualizes the relationship between the explicate and implicate orders.
Suppose we have two glass cylinders, a smaller one placed concentrically inside the other. We fill the space between the two cylinders with a viscous fluid, like glycerine. Then we take insoluble ink (for example ink composed of carbon particles). We then place a droplet of that ink onto the surface of the fluid. So what we then see is a dark more or less circular droplet floating on a colorless medium. If we now rotate the outer cylinder slowly, then any fluid element (i.e. any small region of the fluid) will be drawn out, because the parts of that fluid element that are closer to the outer cylinder are moving faster than those that lie more inward. And with this fluid element the ink droplet will also be drawn out. After prolonged rotation the ink droplet will be stretched into a long thread, and as the process proceeds, the droplet will finally disappear, and the thread will be so thin that it becomes invisible to the naked eye. For the latter the ink has been totally mixed up with the glycerine.

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#5    Frank Merton

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 04:53 PM

View PostSocio, on 11 December 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

Trying to wrap my head around this, if it is a hologram then to what purpose?
To do it.  If we had the technology we would.  For all we know its some kids with a mumbo-jumbo build your own universe in their garage.

Of course more likely the technology is something else and they are aware of us and observing all the details to learn what sorts of things can happen given certain circumstances.  It's also possible that we are ourselves doing it as a way of educating or entertaining ourselves and when we die we unplug ourselves.


#6    Rlyeh

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 05:37 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 11 December 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

To do it.  If we had the technology we would.  For all we know its some kids with a mumbo-jumbo build your own universe in their garage.

Of course more likely the technology is something else and they are aware of us and observing all the details to learn what sorts of things can happen given certain circumstances.  It's also possible that we are ourselves doing it as a way of educating or entertaining ourselves and when we die we unplug ourselves.
The holographic universe and simulation argument are entirely different theories. The holographic universe proposes the 3D universe is projected from a 2D surface.

http://ref-sciam.liv...l.com/1190.html

Edited by Rlyeh, 11 December 2013 - 05:40 PM.


#7    third_eye

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 08:31 PM

the universe is 'flat' ???

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#8    Rolci

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 03:36 PM

Nothing new here, I remember Leonard Susskind talking about this years ago.

Also the idea that information is not lost in black holes but preserved. Not for the weak-minded!

Edited by Rolci, 17 December 2013 - 03:38 PM.


#9    Calibeliever

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 04:53 PM

This is heady stuff to be sure. I think it's cool that we humans continue to challenge our 'reality'. Concepts we teach our grade school children as facts were considered way out there 100 years ago. May we always continue to question everything.


#10    OverSword

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 05:15 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 11 December 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

To do it.  If we had the technology we would.  For all we know its some kids with a mumbo-jumbo build your own universe in their garage.

Of course more likely the technology is something else and they are aware of us and observing all the details to learn what sorts of things can happen given certain circumstances.  It's also possible that we are ourselves doing it as a way of educating or entertaining ourselves and when we die we unplug ourselves.
exactly this Frank.  And once you accept that people (beings) would make such constructs for simulation purposes then you must also aknowlege that the odds are heavily leaning towards the possibility that we are in fact in one such simulation.  So heavily that it's almost certain that we are.


#11    Artaxerxes

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 06:29 PM

The answer to life's most profound questions can be answered by an understanding of quantum physics and the holographic nature of the Universe.

We experience duality and separation in order for the soul to be imprinted with what it means and how it feels to be separate, unique, individual. We here in the physical universe can't begin to understand the powerful feelings of oneness and connectedness in the Spiritual Universe due to it's holographic nature. Because of those feelings of oneness and connectedness, as reported by so many near death experiencers, it may not be possible to develop a sense of "self" or separateness in Heaven. It may have be done here and the way the soul does it is by being imprinted with separation, over and over again and over and over again, enough to last for trillions of years. Duality means stuff like religion, politics, race, language, culture, wealth, looks, height and weight, color, dialects, gender, sexual orientation, etc. All the labels that we wear in life that make us feel separate, unique, individual.

As for physical suffering, it imprints on the soul the physical parameters of the body. What it means and how it feels to be inside a body. To inhabit a body. The difference between feeling warm and feeling hot is a matter of degree. Same with cold. Each touch, both positive and negative, like a bit of computer code, imprinting on the soul the physical parameters of the body. Stub your toe, hit your funny bone, scratch an itch, paper cuts, brush your hair or your teeth, eat a hot pepper, burns, touch your face, feel the wind against your skin, and it's sending little bits of code to the collective unconscious of what it feels like to be in a body.

Life's lessons are embedded in our everyday lives and the soul learns holistically what it's supposed to learn whether we want it to or not. In much the same way that children learn how to talk or a baby duck imprints on it's mother after it hatches out of the egg. Holistically. We don't have to do jack squat.

Because of the holographic nature of the other side all knowledge, and information, on the other side is shared. What one knows everyone knows. We come here not to be assimilated like some kind of Borg, but exactly the opposite, to become unassimilated. To learn what it means to be separate.

The death of someone we love is the ultimate lesson in separation. Nothing else comes close. Not divorce, not friends moving away, nothing imprints on the soul what it means to be separate quite like losing someone you love. The more emotional the experience the more powerful and long lasting the memory it creates. Enough to last for eternity.

We may never be allowed to know absolutely for certain that there is life after death because if we knew absolutely 100% for certain that one day we were going to be reunited forever with the loved ones we've lost, death would lose a little bit of it's sting and power over us.

Everything happens for a reason, even the bad stuff. But keep in mind, compared to eternity, our lives here are like the blink of eye. We think it's a long time while we are here, but after we cross back over it will seem like no time at all has gone by, and we'll view this life like it was a dream or movie, not quite real. This ain't the main show, it's only a very temporary school that we come to for a very short while and then we are allowed back into the Spiritual Universe. Everyone becomes instantly enlightened upon entering the light. It's one of the benefits of those feelings of oneness and connectedness, the holographic nature of the Spiritual Universe.


#12    Merc14

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 06:47 PM

View PostArtaxerxes, on 17 December 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

The answer to life's most profound questions can be answered by an understanding of quantum physics and the holographic nature of the Universe.

We experience duality and separation in order for the soul to be imprinted with what it means and how it feels to be separate, unique, individual. We here in the physical universe can't begin to understand the powerful feelings of oneness and connectedness in the Spiritual Universe due to it's holographic nature. Because of those feelings of oneness and connectedness, as reported by so many near death experiencers, it may not be possible to develop a sense of "self" or separateness in Heaven. It may have be done here and the way the soul does it is by being imprinted with separation, over and over again and over and over again, enough to last for trillions of years. Duality means stuff like religion, politics, race, language, culture, wealth, looks, height and weight, color, dialects, gender, sexual orientation, etc. All the labels that we wear in life that make us feel separate, unique, individual.

As for physical suffering, it imprints on the soul the physical parameters of the body. What it means and how it feels to be inside a body. To inhabit a body. The difference between feeling warm and feeling hot is a matter of degree. Same with cold. Each touch, both positive and negative, like a bit of computer code, imprinting on the soul the physical parameters of the body. Stub your toe, hit your funny bone, scratch an itch, paper cuts, brush your hair or your teeth, eat a hot pepper, burns, touch your face, feel the wind against your skin, and it's sending little bits of code to the collective unconscious of what it feels like to be in a body.


Not sure if I agree with your spiritual view of the universe or not and I never argue those things but I must say it is beautifully written. Well done.

Edited by Merc14, 17 December 2013 - 06:48 PM.

Believing when there is no compelling evidence is a mistake.  The idea is to withhold belief until there is compelling evidence and if the universe does not comply with our predispositions, okay, then we have the wrenching obligation to accommodate to the way the universe really is.  - Carl Sagan

Who is more humble, the scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us or somebody who says everything in this book should be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of the human beings involved in the writing of this legend - Carl Sagan

#13    Leonardo

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Posted 17 December 2013 - 11:17 PM

View PostSocio, on 11 December 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

Trying to wrap my head around this, if it is a hologram then to what purpose?

As Rlyeh has already suggested, the Holographic Universe hypothesis has nothing to do with a designed or simulation universe. 'Holographic', in the sense the model uses it, is simply how the information which represents the universe is 'encoded' in space. Just as the hologram is a higher-order projection of lower-order data, so it is proposed that the 'higher dimensionality' of space required by M-Theory (among others) is a projection of lower-order information encoded into 3 dimensional (or even 2-dimensional) space.

There are a few inaccuracies in the OP article that bear clarifying. The Holographic Universe model is not Maldacena's - he proposes a version of that model. The Holographic Universe hypothesis goes back to the 1970's with t'Hooft and Susskind

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#14    Phenix20

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 02:56 AM

I've heard of a similar theory explained by Dr Laza which stipulate that we may be living in a sort matrix. Thus according to the theory, death is merely a human concept. That is kind of similar to a 'hologramme'. More studies are needed and we may never reach a clear understanding of our world but It opens up various possibilities as to the origin of the Universe itself and our of existence.  



#15    Merc14

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 03:00 AM

View PostLeonardo, on 17 December 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

As Rlyeh has already suggested, the Holographic Universe hypothesis has nothing to do with a designed or simulation universe. 'Holographic', in the sense the model uses it, is simply how the information which represents the universe is 'encoded' in space. Just as the hologram is a higher-order projection of lower-order data, so it is proposed that the 'higher dimensionality' of space required by M-Theory (among others) is a projection of lower-order information encoded into 3 dimensional (or even 2-dimensional) space.

There are a few inaccuracies in the OP article that bear clarifying. The Holographic Universe model is not Maldacena's - he proposes a version of that model. The Holographic Universe hypothesis goes back to the 1970's with t'Hooft and Susskind

Is there any way you can "dumb that down" for us.  I realize that is an incredibly difficult task but asking anyways

Believing when there is no compelling evidence is a mistake.  The idea is to withhold belief until there is compelling evidence and if the universe does not comply with our predispositions, okay, then we have the wrenching obligation to accommodate to the way the universe really is.  - Carl Sagan

Who is more humble, the scientist who looks at the universe with an open mind and accepts whatever the universe has to teach us or somebody who says everything in this book should be considered the literal truth and never mind the fallibility of the human beings involved in the writing of this legend - Carl Sagan




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