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(Pre) Inca Stone cutting Info/Links


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#1    Willie B Herd

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 12:38 AM

Purpose: to consolidate and gain useful info on the Tiawanaku Complex, ETC.

http://www.michaelsh...one Masonry.pdf (Protzen/Nair)

http://www.michaelsh...tonecutting.pdf

http://www.michaelsh...Inca Design.pdf (S. Nair)

http://peruenroute.w...ow-incas-built/ (Pics of stone-cutting tools)

(Above provided by Swede)

Also for more info, search 'Tiawanaku-A City Lost In Time' (Atlantisbolivia site) for info and several links. And search, "Advances in the Titicaca Basin" (Part 1 available free online [pdf] Parts 2 and 3 available online @ a price...$65 for Part 2!!!)


I've read that only 2 of the sandstone H blocks have the small dbl-recessed 'cross-pattern' on the back. Do all others have the large protruding "Christian" type cross on the back? (Thought to part of the interlocking wall system.)
(Some info online states that all H blocks are identical in size, but they are not. I've seen diagrams of them online, but measurements are so small, they are unreadable.)

How many are there??? I checked some newer pics and the most H blocks shown in any one pic is 6, (in a line or row) another pic showed 4, but it appeared that they are part of the row of 6. Difficult to tell how many in total, the 'experts' keep moving them around to suit their idea(s) of how they were originally positioned.

Some H blocks have what appears to be a dove-tailed mortice in top-front section, (supposedly for a tenon that supports a hinged door) How many have this???

One (that I know of) H Block has a verticle hole, bored thru the front horizontal bar....what is it's diameter?***

In some of the Andesite stones the equally spaced small holes are located in a 6mm x 6mm channel, (some Andesite stones have just the holes)...does anyone know how far apart they are spaced, and/or how deep they are drilled??? (assuming they were drilled).

ONLY STONE STANDS THE TEST OF TIME.

The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.

#2    Lemieux

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 12:50 AM

View PostWillie B Herd, on 12 December 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

In some of the Andesite stones the equally spaced small holes are located in a 6mm x 6mm channel, (some Andesite stones have just the holes)...does anyone know how far apart they are spaced, and/or how deep they are drilled??? (assuming they were drilled).

There was a video posted somewhere here recently that answered some of that. I apologize for not remembering the exact spacing, but they did show that the holes were evenly spaced all the way down.

Awesome thread too btw... thanks for the links. I will definitely spend some time checking them out! I checked out some links Swede out up about this subject in the past(same links? I'll find out soon enough) and I found them very informative. They were some long reads too lol But good stuff!


#3    Willie B Herd

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:07 AM

U R welcome, IF you can find vid, plz post here. B)

ONLY STONE STANDS THE TEST OF TIME.

The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.

#4    Lemieux

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:16 AM

View PostWillie B Herd, on 12 December 2013 - 01:07 AM, said:

U R welcome, IF you can find vid, plz post here. B)

Go to the 6:50 mark of the vid... Hopefully it posts... I'm not a pro"surfer" >:)~



Hope there's some answers in there for ya.
Cheers!


#5    Lemieux

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:37 AM

View PostWillie B Herd, on 12 December 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

Purpose: to consolidate and gain useful info on the Tiawanaku Complex, ETC.

http://www.michaelsh...one Masonry.pdf (Protzen/Nair)

http://www.michaelsh...tonecutting.pdf

http://www.michaelsh...Inca Design.pdf (S. Nair)

http://peruenroute.w...ow-incas-built/ (Pics of stone-cutting tools)

(Above provided by Swede)


Went to go start reading some of these, but none of the links worked for me.

I'm using FireFox... Are my pc's settings messed up maybe? Do the links work for other people???
It wouldn't surprise me that my pc is messed up lol


#6    maneckezaog

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 07:31 AM

They were some long reads too lol But good stuff!Posted Image


#7    Willie B Herd

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 06:23 PM

Another website is Ancient mysteries-sacred sites....some useful info, and access to more links.

ONLY STONE STANDS THE TEST OF TIME.

The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.

#8    lightly

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 02:16 AM

View PostLemieux, on 12 December 2013 - 01:37 AM, said:

Went to go start reading some of these, but none of the links worked for me.

I'm using FireFox... Are my pc's settings messed up maybe? Do the links work for other people???
It wouldn't surprise me that my pc is messed up lol

  The links wouldn't open for me either.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#9    Harte

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:23 AM

Thought I'd add a couple of resources.

Lake Titicaca lake levels through history

Compilation of radiocarbon dates for Tiahuhuanaco, including analysis.

Harte

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Giorgio's dying Ancient Aliens internet forum

#10    Willie B Herd

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 07:40 PM

View Postlightly, on 14 December 2013 - 02:16 AM, said:

  The links wouldn't open for me either.

Try using same links posted in "King Tut-one mystery solved" I had better luck there. (Sometimes one won't work, and then will work 5 min later...keep trying, use adobe reader if poss.)

Thanks for the video. He said the holes were 32.5mm or 1 5/16" apart and perfectly spaced. No mention of depth, or diameter of holes. :rolleyes:
Also, @ about 6 min, he points to, and mentions erronously 'quarry marks'. :no: This technique of cutting a long groove, (to break the stone along its line) IS used in quarrying, (and bricklayers use same and call it 'scouring") BUT the grooves he pointed out are from an unfinished stone pillaging process. This site has been pillaged for centuries by the locals, and then the Spainards used gupowder to try and destroy it, also wikipedia states, "the military used Puma Punku/Tia for target practice. ETC. ETC.
The front third of this stone is gone, and there are drawings from the mid 1800's of this stone intact on the net....it had a 3 step (inverted) 'stairway' @ each side dn to sunken area, and didn't yet have the marks he pointed out..

Protzen and Nair did a good job thru out. Long but worth reading. :tu:  For the most part, I agree w/ their write-ups. EXCEPT for the 'test-fit' idea. The larger the stone, the less likely it was test-fit. I'm sure they had some kind of measuring system and devices they used to accurately measure and dbl check ALL rock faces BEFORE setting stones into place, inc. polygonal walls, etc.

(Harte, thanks for the links. B) )

Edited by Willie B Herd, 14 December 2013 - 08:00 PM.

ONLY STONE STANDS THE TEST OF TIME.

The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.

#11    Willie B Herd

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 09:36 PM

ON STONE TEST FITS:Posted Image

Using the Ollantaytambo "Sandwich Stones" as an example of poss lg stone test fits. In setting the first 3 stones, (2 lg and one slim 'center slab' stone) the 3, (or all shown) could have been set up in a line w/ adequate working room to allow for the shaping and dressing process to be done on 4 faces @ once. When they are ready, the 'center slab' could've (fairly easily???) been moved both directions to each lg stone for the test fits. This avoids having to move the larger stones for the test fit. (It's less moving but requires more dressing work than just fitting 2 lg stones together.)

Possibly it is a 'perfect fit' stone to stone, or possibly each stone face was dress to a concave shape, w/ very outer edge of all faces dressed to form a slightly raised flat rim, (maybe 2" wide). This method would've allowed for the practical use of stringlines, and straight edge devices, etc. for measuring, (measure twice, cut once, and install once). Also time/effort was saved in the final dressing proccess by greatly reducing the area of the mating surfaces to be precision finished to achieve the tight joints seen here. (Also, this method would've allowed for some minor verticle/horizontal adjustments in final placement of stones.)

A perfect fit probably would require test fitting, this example seems to be the easiest way possible. Not sure of why they built in this fashion, maybe using the 'center slab' (and/or the concave facing method) w/ extra faces to dress still saved more time overall as opposed to moving larger stones to test fit, and final fit. Maybe they slid the 'center slab' stones in from the front.

Edited by Willie B Herd, 15 December 2013 - 09:37 PM.

ONLY STONE STANDS THE TEST OF TIME.

The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.

#12    Willie B Herd

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Posted 16 December 2013 - 10:07 PM

Posted Image



TEST FIT ON POLYGONAL WALLS

I had said the bigger the stone, the less likely it was test fit. Some of the larger stones here have 3 or more dressed faces, and as big and awkward looking as they are, (like the upper right stone) test fitting seems very unlikely. Protzen figured stones were placed by first sliding them up a dirt ramp (to level needed) @ front of the wall, then placed in wall from there. (Also he found evidence that more of the dressing work was done on the tops of the stones already placed in wall.) :tu:

Poss they were dressed as needed @ top of ramp position, and this would make for easier measuring, fine finishing, etc. Measure twice, cut once, install once!!! B)

Edited by Willie B Herd, 16 December 2013 - 10:12 PM.

ONLY STONE STANDS THE TEST OF TIME.

The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.

#13    Willie B Herd

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 11:26 PM

Posted Image


Here's an example of a polygonal wall @ Saqsaywaman. Regardless of what those A :alien:  ppl tell you, the lg stone in the center occured naturally @ this spot, it was NOT moved, and they added stones to it.

Highly unlikely these stones were test-fit even once.

Edited by Willie B Herd, 18 December 2013 - 11:28 PM.

ONLY STONE STANDS THE TEST OF TIME.

The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.

#14    Willie B Herd

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Posted 18 December 2013 - 11:52 PM

At the temple of the condor we find that enormous slabs of andesite rock that were quarried from what is known as “The Wall of Living Rock.”  Here we find these blocks that were removed in such a precision that we hardly find scratches, the material from where the slabs were removed is andesite and that material is really strong and hard to “cut”,  you would need something that is stronger than andesite to accomplish this.
Posted ImageIn my opinion another interesting fact is that these slabs were so precisely removed that we do not find broken edges or any other signs of extreme force applied that could have caused the material to “break” or deform. The corners from where they were removed are not sharp but are almost perfectly round and until today someone has yet to explain how all of this was possible. Another interesting find lay on the bottom from where these rocks were cut out of, we find these strange but precise crisscross pattern. The pattern that we see appears to be a trace left by some kind of machinery that was left behind at the time these slabs were being removed, possibly these marks could have been created by some kind of laser or saw machine, so yes this could be one of the most clear pieces of evidence that the ancients did in fact use some sort of advanced technology at the time they were cutting, removing and shaping these incredible rocks. “The rock surface looks rough but when you touch it it feels as smooth as a bathroom mirror, which means some type of vitrification process was used. At the bottom of where this alcove was cut out, we can see a crisscross pattern, in my opinion, they are actually saw marks, to me, this pattern is irrefutable proof for ancient machining.” - Giorgio A. Tsoukalos- See more at: http://www.ancient-c...h.dDJAkvJV.dpuf


IMO, these diagonal cuts were made intentionally by the Pre Inca ppl w/ the intent of using WATER in the stone cutting process (only for the bottom cut of the stone removed from here). IF all sides and the top of the stone were freed from quarry, (using standard methods of the period would account for the rounded edges mentioned) and the channels pre-cut,  a 'wire-saw' could've then been used for the horizontal bottom cut.

IF channels were cut perpendicular to the front stone face, they would've been nearly ineffective to flush out cut material. Being diagonal, they would've been much more effective in flushing process....a wire could've been wrapped around stone, tensioned/guided by, and turned on pullys just above channels, w/ constant flow of water directed thru channels to aid in the cutting process.

NOT vitrification, :rolleyes: erosion....over 1,000 yrs. of rain, wind, etc. AT LEAST Georgio noticed the 'saw-marks'...maybe he needs glasses. :rolleyes:  

Ancient machining doesn't automatically mean ancient :alien: :alien: :alien:

Edited by Willie B Herd, 18 December 2013 - 11:58 PM.

ONLY STONE STANDS THE TEST OF TIME.

The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.

#15    Willie B Herd

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Posted 19 December 2013 - 12:09 AM

Posted Image

Here's an example from Machu Picchu....the lg stones were probably naturally occurring, and they shaped and then stacked upon them. The upper stones are probably still to large to test fit.

ONLY STONE STANDS THE TEST OF TIME.

The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.




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