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The ETH and paralell universes


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18 replies to this topic

#1    Lotharson

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 08:21 PM

As I described in another post, I am skeptical of the principle "extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence" (and of the Bayesian epistemology which underlies it),
I am not saying it is wrong, just that I am far from being convinced it is true.

I find it very problematic that, all things being equal, we believe without any reservation a mentally healthy and reliable witness reporting a drug traffic in his field, but ought to believe he has had extraordinary hallucinations occurring right at the just moment, if he reported having encountered an UFO and its occupants (leaving physical traces), like this occurred in the southern part of France and in other places all over the world.

It is my strong suspicion that in a small number of UFO cases something truly mysterious and unexplained is going on.

Yet like Dr. Jacques Vallee I also believe that the conclusion that the origin is extraterrestrial is not only premature but also contradicted by many things (he listed up), including the fact that our ancestors most likely encountered the same "aliens" under the form of elves, fairies, leprechauns and so and so forth.


His own pet theory is that the beings might come from a parallel universe, but he is also open to the possibility they might be a physical manifestation of our collective unconscious or mind.


I am clearly agnostic about this, all I believe is that UFO (which by definition JUST mean unidentified flying objects) are real by any normal standard of evidence.


Now I would like to hear your thoughts on that.
I first gave epistemological links to my blog because I think this really matters for this conversation, and I would probably have completely cluttered the post in an inelegant way if I had copied the content here.

What is more, not being a materialist, I fail to see why the possible nature of the Ufonauts mentioned above are extremely unlikely, so that even if the principle "extraordinary claim..." were to be true, I would not apply it in this situation because for me the existence of parallel realms is not implausible.

I hope both UFO-believers and deniers will participate in this discussion.
I lie probably somewhere between these extremes.

Cheers from Europe.

Edited by Lotharson, 12 December 2013 - 08:31 PM.

"The greatest mystery is not the sighting of an alleged ghost or UFO but the sheer existence of our consciousness"

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#2    Sweetpumper

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 08:28 PM

View PostLotharson, on 12 December 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

It is my strong suspicion that in a small number of UFO cases something truly mysterious and unexplained is going on.

That is a fact.

View PostLotharson, on 12 December 2013 - 08:21 PM, said:

UFO (which by definition JUST mean unidentified flying objects)

Umm, wut.

"At it's most basic level, science is supposed to represent the investigation of the unexplained, not the explanation of the uninvestigated."
- Hunt for the Skinwalker

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#3    Whisperer

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 08:37 PM

Agree, not necessarily non-terrestrial but could in fact be resident here and now in Underground societies as posed by many cultural myths...

I be Ra...The river of life, the ebb and flow of summer tides...
Make not an image of me, nor offer unto me the limitations of form...
For I be Soul....and I will not be limited...

#4    Hazzard

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 09:22 PM

Yes, or we could be stuck in a Matrix type of deal, and UFOs are a glitch in the software.


Either that, or human time travelers from the year 2063.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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#5    Lotharson

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:09 PM

I don't see why the possibility we live in a simulation is absurd.

"The greatest mystery is not the sighting of an alleged ghost or UFO but the sheer existence of our consciousness"

Lotharson http://lotharlorraine.wordpress.com/

#6    Sweetpumper

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:12 PM

View PostLotharson, on 12 December 2013 - 10:09 PM, said:

I don't see why the possibility we live in a simulation is absurd.

Are we living in a HOLOGRAM? Physicists believe our universe could just be a projection of another cosmos
  • Holographic principle claims gravity comes from thin, vibrating strings
  • These strings are holograms of events that take place in a flatter cosmos
  • According to this theory, everything we experience can be described as events that take place in this flatter location
  • This is the first time the validity of the model has been mathematically tested
http://www.dailymail...projection.html

"At it's most basic level, science is supposed to represent the investigation of the unexplained, not the explanation of the uninvestigated."
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"So many people forget that the first country the Nazis invaded was their own." Dr. Abraham Erskine

#7    Spacenut56

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:14 PM

View PostSweetpumper, on 12 December 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

Are we living in a HOLOGRAM? Physicists believe our universe could just be a projection of another cosmos
  • Holographic principle claims gravity comes from thin, vibrating strings
  • These strings are holograms of events that take place in a flatter cosmos
  • According to this theory, everything we experience can be described as events that take place in this flatter location
  • This is the first time the validity of the model has been mathematically tested
http://www.dailymail...projection.html

excellent timing SP, as I was just reading about this possibility on another site. Wow.


#8    Spacenut56

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:15 PM

View PostLotharson, on 12 December 2013 - 10:09 PM, said:

I don't see why the possibility we live in a simulation is absurd.
Indeed, and I am open to the possibility that there may be more than one universe as well. We are in the trying to learn stage right now for sure, about a lot of things.

Edited by Spacenut56, 12 December 2013 - 10:15 PM.


#9    Lotharson

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:39 PM

Yep, and since we CANNOT rule out the multiverse and the simulation theory as being implausible, we cannot rule out contact with beings from these realms as being unlikely.

This is why I don't think it is irrational to believe that this farmer in southern France really had a close encounter with unknown creatures or had a spiritial experience, even if I certainly respect other opinions.

Edited by Lotharson, 12 December 2013 - 10:40 PM.

"The greatest mystery is not the sighting of an alleged ghost or UFO but the sheer existence of our consciousness"

Lotharson http://lotharlorraine.wordpress.com/

#10    Hazzard

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Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:55 PM

Or they could be mole people from deap within the Earth for all we know?

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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#11    Lotharson

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 01:48 AM

But this would fly in the face of all our physical knowledge about the earth and what we know about the biology of moles.

As a contrast, our living in a matrix does not contradict anything we know, as philosopher David Chalmers brillantly argued:

http://philpapers.org/rec/CHATMA

"The greatest mystery is not the sighting of an alleged ghost or UFO but the sheer existence of our consciousness"

Lotharson http://lotharlorraine.wordpress.com/

#12    DONTEATUS

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 03:33 AM

We can rule out Little Green Men ! And Blue Men, maybe the Blue men they at least work in Vegas.And only a 90 mile drive from there are the Little Grey men.
What If all the E.T`s out there are really no color at all ?
Like pure intelligent energy @!@

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#13    Rlyeh

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 10:16 AM

View PostSweetpumper, on 12 December 2013 - 10:12 PM, said:

Are we living in a HOLOGRAM? Physicists believe our universe could just be a projection of another cosmos
  • Holographic principle claims gravity comes from thin, vibrating strings
  • These strings are holograms of events that take place in a flatter cosmos
  • According to this theory, everything we experience can be described as events that take place in this flatter location
  • This is the first time the validity of the model has been mathematically tested
http://www.dailymail...projection.html
Nothing to do with living in computer simulation.

Edited by Rlyeh, 13 December 2013 - 10:21 AM.


#14    Hazzard

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Posted 13 December 2013 - 11:44 AM

Or, they could be atmospheric energy critters?

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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#15    DONTEATUS

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 09:20 PM

Are we going to be tested after this thread develops into a Mega Thread ? If so I better get my slide rule out ! :tu:

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