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The Medicineless hospitals of China


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#31    Ryu

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 01:27 PM

View PostRolci, on 29 July 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

The placebo effect is an example of how our expectations and beliefs can cause real change in our physical bodies. It’s a phenomenon that we don’t completely understand. But we can see it working in all kinds of ways, and all kinds of circumstances.
...

Explains why acupuncture didn't do anything for me. I did not expect anything to happen, I figured that if it was legit then it will work regardless of what I thought.  I just let things happen as they...or may not.
It didn't work which proved to me, once and for all, that all this energy "medicine" was a load of bean dip.


#32    John from Lowell

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 01:48 PM

Hello,

Dean Shrock, Ph, D. was interviewed on a recent radio show where he stated that what we teach in medical school today does not reflect what can be validated through medical research.
http://deanshrock.com/

The drug happy pharmaceutical industry has a great influence and vested interested in keeping people sick. Those that work in the medical profession are starting to understand and appreciate the integration of Mind-Body medical services. These things take time. If you really want to know what is going on in the medical profession today, do the research yourself. An informed patient can ask their doctor for much more than they may realize. After all this is still a business. The patient has control over how they are serviced.

John

Edited by John from Lowell, 29 July 2014 - 01:48 PM.

What We Are Never Changes !!

Who We Are Is Always Changing !!!

#33    Rafterman

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:25 PM

View PostRolci, on 29 July 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

I have a better link, the British NHS itself:

http://www.nhs.uk/Li...ebo-effect.aspx

Some quotes:

The placebo effect is an example of how our expectations and beliefs can cause real change in our physical bodies. It’s a phenomenon that we don’t completely understand. But we can see it working in all kinds of ways, and all kinds of circumstances.
...
Placebo medicine has even been shown to cause stomach ulcers to heal faster than they otherwise would.
These amazing results show that the placebo effect is real, and powerful. They mean that fake or placebo treatments can cause real improvements in health conditions: improvements we can see with our own eyes.

Experiencing the placebo effect is not the same as being 'tricked', or being foolish. The effect can happen to everyone, however intelligent, and whether they know about the placebo effect or not.

And as for the link you gave, I must thank you, it made me think for the first time about how much of the conventional medicines must have healing effects solely due to the PE. Which are, of course sold for money. Of course we're told they have this and that chemical in it, and it's been tested and proven. Of course, the subjects during the test expected to get better so they did. In spite of all that it's funny how ineffective chemo- and radiation therapy are even though the patients have faith in them (otherwise they wouldn't take the treatment, maybe because they have seen The Cancer Conspiracy documentary or discovered the grim truth about these therapies from websites like naturalnews.com/042563_chemotherapy_cancer_growth_treatment_resistance.html ) Guess you do create your reality after all.

You seem to be engaged in a game of semantics.  Yes, the placebo effect is real.  Yes it can help alleviate SOME symptoms temporarily.

It cannot, however, treat disease.  

If I've got stage 4 pancreatic cancer and the doctor gives me something and says it will make me feel better, I might actually feel a little better after taking it.  But guess what, I've still got stage 4 pancreatic cancer.  And if I then fly to the Philippines and pay a bunch of money to a "psychic surgeon" to remove my cancer, I might feel fantastic afterwards.  I might even fly home singing the surgeon's praises.  But guess what, I'm still dead of pancreatic cancer in a 2 weeks.  And I'm out a nice chunk of money that I could have left to my family.  

I'll give you my own example - when my daughter was teething, someone recommended Hyland's Teething Tablets - swore by them in fact.  They are a homeopathic preparation and at the time, like most folks who haven't done the research, I thought homeopathic just meant "all natural" - just some herbs and ****.  At bedtime every night we made a big deal out of giving her her "tabbies" as we called them.  It was fun.  We laughed and played, sang songs, and had a grand old time.  And by god if anyone asked us about them, we would have sworn by them too.  But it was 100% placebo effect because there WAS NOTHING IN THEM.  They were simply sugar pills.  Whether or not the placebo effect worked on our daughter is debatable, but it completely worked on us.

As for your stuff from natural news - I don't even waste my time reading about Mike Adams and his nonsense.

"For me, it is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
                                                                                                                                           - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World:  Science as a Candle in the Dark

#34    Rolci

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:03 PM

View PostRafterman, on 29 July 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

As for your stuff from natural news - I don't even waste my time reading about Mike Adams and his nonsense.

Obviously you missed the direct link to Nature http://www.nature.co...ll/nm.2890.html quoted in the article. Or you have a serious problem knowing which sources you can trust and which you can't. I'm sure you have more reputable sources than Nature that you build your whole personal reality exclusively on.

Edited by Rolci, 29 July 2014 - 07:05 PM.

Best piece of truth I have found so far: http://llresearch.or...of_one_pdf.aspx
A truly free society: https://sites.google...t-economy-today
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A wealth of metaphysical readings with a surprisingly high ratio of truth content: soulwise (dot) net/index-00.htm

#35    Rafterman

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 02:00 PM

View PostRolci, on 29 July 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

Obviously you missed the direct link to Nature http://www.nature.co...ll/nm.2890.html quoted in the article. Or you have a serious problem knowing which sources you can trust and which you can't. I'm sure you have more reputable sources than Nature that you build your whole personal reality exclusively on.

If you can't see the problems with how NN is reporting that legitimate study, then I really can't help you.

And frankly NN's conclusion that folks should seek alternative treatments from the criminal hucksters like Stanislaw Burzynski is, well, criminal but also right in line with what we've come to expect from Mike Adams.  Keep in mind that Adams is under investigation from the FBI for terroristic threats against basically anyone who disagrees with him.

If these are the kinds of folks you follow for your medical advice, I feel sorry for you.

"For me, it is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
                                                                                                                                           - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World:  Science as a Candle in the Dark

#36    RabidMongoose

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 01:37 PM

View PostRolci, on 13 December 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

I felt I had to start this topic as I could not find a single topic on this on the whole of UM. I was actually appalled when google came up with 0 hits for the word "medicinless" for this website. Sorry if this has already been discussed here, I could find no reference, but even if it has, let's do it again!

In Europe we believe the fundamental parts are atoms which come together to make a human. Therefore there must be something wrong going on with fundamental parts when it comes to illness.

In china the whole is what an object is and the whole determines its fundamental components. Therefore when an unbalance exists with the whole it determines fundamental components which cause disease.

Where the video is wrong is that science actually agrees with the second one, shock horror! In Western Science the name given to it is systems, in the east its called holism.

Edited by RabidMongoose, 01 August 2014 - 01:37 PM.


#37    Rolci

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 11:24 AM

View PostRafterman, on 29 July 2014 - 03:25 PM, said:

If I've got stage 4 pancreatic cancer and the doctor gives me something and says it will make me feel better, I might actually feel a little better after taking it.  But guess what, I've still got stage 4 pancreatic cancer.  And if I then fly to the Philippines and pay a bunch of money to a "psychic surgeon" to remove my cancer, I might feel fantastic afterwards.  I might even fly home singing the surgeon's praises.  But guess what, I'm still dead of pancreatic cancer in a 2 weeks.  And I'm out a nice chunk of money that I could have left to my family.  

Perfectly put! Yet it's funny you would say all that in this topic, where the WHOLE POINT in this topic is that your cancer disappears. Like from the woman in this video:



There is only one problem in this video, and that is that it features only one of millions of cases, thousands of which are properly documented with scans and doctors' testimonies. Just because you don't understand how something works doesn't mean it doesn't work. Your understanding is not a requirement. But if you wanted to contribute your insightful comments to this topic, the least that you could be expected to do is to find out what the topic is all about - the medicineless hospitals of China - and how prayer works. If you took the time you would've found any video similar to this one:



and you wouldn't have made opposing and thus irrelevant comments. We're not trying to discuss how someone had cancer, believed he could be made feel better, but didn't really believe he would be healed, and then he felt better, but still had cancer. What do you discuss about that??

Best piece of truth I have found so far: http://llresearch.or...of_one_pdf.aspx
A truly free society: https://sites.google...t-economy-today
The true history of our planet: http://www.floating-...rth_history.htm
Dialogues with The Absolute: unveiledsecretsandmessagesoflight.blogspot (dot) co (dot) uk/2011/08/eon-11aug2010.html
A wealth of metaphysical readings with a surprisingly high ratio of truth content: soulwise (dot) net/index-00.htm

#38    hellwyr

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 02:37 PM

everybody can heal themselves, but you need training and your counsciousness must be trained. so for must people medicine is the way to go.

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#39    Rolci

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 04:26 PM

View Posthellwyr, on 03 August 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

everybody can heal themselves, but you need training and your counsciousness must be trained. so for must people medicine is the way to go.

One of the problems with medicines is side effects. I find it funny how all different medicines are used for all different ailments, yet all of the medicines have side-effects, some worse than others, almost as if they were engineered that way. Which makes sense, once you're healed from one condition you'll have to go back to the pharmacy to get another medicine for your new problems. Big Pharma ain't stupid.

As for conciousness training, don't you worry about that, they received all the training from TV adverts for decades, look how well it's working, they put these silly medicines into their bodies believing they will feel better or be healed, and voila - it works! Also, if the medical establishment were for real, wouldn't chance dictate that they should've announced by now a few herbal cures that are freely available to all? Oh wait, there is no profit in that, they don't want to be out of business, so even if a herb is discovered to heal an ailment, what they will do is try to buy the recipe, monopolize it, try to produce the active ingredients in medicine form and sell it for ridiculous prices. If they cannot obtain it or the recipe, they will make sure that it cannot be used in treatment, as happened with Essiac at the time.

Best piece of truth I have found so far: http://llresearch.or...of_one_pdf.aspx
A truly free society: https://sites.google...t-economy-today
The true history of our planet: http://www.floating-...rth_history.htm
Dialogues with The Absolute: unveiledsecretsandmessagesoflight.blogspot (dot) co (dot) uk/2011/08/eon-11aug2010.html
A wealth of metaphysical readings with a surprisingly high ratio of truth content: soulwise (dot) net/index-00.htm

#40    Ryu

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 05:34 PM

View Posthellwyr, on 03 August 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

everybody can heal themselves...

Yes, it is sometimes referred to as "nutrition", "proper hygiene" and physical activity of some sort.
These things alone often help stave off or at least greatly alleviate the severity of most illnesses.


#41    StRoostifer

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:39 PM

View PostRyu, on 03 August 2014 - 05:34 PM, said:

Yes, it is sometimes referred to as "nutrition", "proper hygiene" and physical activity of some sort.
These things alone often help stave off or at least greatly alleviate the severity of most illnesses.
Absolutely! I found this out for myself as I ate a very poor diet for many years which has led to some really bad digestive issues over the last 4 years. Now I focus on good nutrician and am feeling much much better, no thanks to the family doctor that told me it was in my head and wanted to put me on anti depressants for no reason at all. He is no longer my doctor.

I focus on quality food,  exercise , hygiene and keeping my emotions in check to limit stress. I don't waste time arguing with  people  or anything like that. My only Achilles heal is Ive been a smoker for many years  and am struggling to quit.

Thank you to the OP for making this thread. I don't have any experience with the links you have posted but I keep an open mind and believe anything is possible. Also, thank you for giving me something else to read up on as I am interested in alternative ways to keep my money out of big pharmas already bloated pockets.


#42    himalyanmystic

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 01:18 PM

View PostRolci, on 13 December 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

I felt I had to start this topic as I could not find a single topic on this on the whole of UM. I was actually appalled when google came up with 0 hits for the word "medicinless" for this website. Sorry if this has already been discussed here, I could find no reference, but even if it has, let's do it again!

This is supposed to be huge yet no media coverage that I'm aware of. Basically, there are several so-called medicineless hospitals in China where healing takes place using Chi, exercises, positive affirmation, and most importantly they do not "just" heal patients with all sorts of diseases including incurable tumours of cancer but they actually teach them how to heal themselves. Here is an outline of the whole "movement" with some basic info:

http://www.chilel.co...ng/hospital.htm

I first heard of these hospitals in a workshop by Gregg Braden where he presented a video footage where they use ultrasound imaging to show the tumour of a cancer patient disappearing in a matter of 3 minutes. We are not talking about a time lapse video! I think you can view the whole workshop here:

http://www.youtube.c...7e1yCVvc#t=4800

If I remember correctly this was filmed in the largest such hospital in China where they do not allow any filming, and Gregg was told he was the first and I believe since then still the only person they allowed to take a footage for his documentary, I think he mentions in his presentation why, but not sure.

I must voice my opinion here that I like to take a cautious approach to presenters of esoteric, conspiracy, or other kinds of "weird" material, like David Icke, David Wilcock, Graham Hancock and the rest. But I must admit, I find the material Gregg Braden presents to be, besides empowering and thought-provoking, also well-researched and thorough, I like his provocative and, I believe, original ideas. Also I fing him to be genuine and honest. Of course I could be wrong, but all I can give here is my opinion, the way I see him and his work. He has many great works like The Isaiah Effect and  The Lost Mode of Prayer and others, but there is quite a lot of overlapping between them. If anyone is interested in what he has to say, I would recommend Speaking the Lost Language of God, an 8-hour presentation that, well, pretty much has it all in one pack. If you can't get hold of it (I'd rather not offer ideas here on how to! :D), then you can just watch The Lost Mode of Prayer or a few of his other presentations and workshops on youtube.

So anyway, getting back to the main topic, medicinless hospitals in China and now more and more in America and around the world. I found an interview with a healing practitioner who works in the US:



What do you guys think?

While we're on this topic, I'd like to mention one more thing rather than start a whole new topic just for this. I checked a few weeks ago and couldn't find anything here on UM about this either, so I might as well add this here.

It's about healing by the laying on of hands (LOOH). I'm not talking about psychic healing (PH) at all. Although they could be related, for all I know PH, LOOH and Chi healing could be different forms/manifestations of the same thing, working on the same underlying principle, like "you you create your own reality", or the law of attraction as explained in The Secret (video and book) by Rhonda Byrne.

Anyway, it's called Craniosacral Therapy (CT), and while there is an entry about this on wikipedia, it doesn't sound like it's a recognized form of healing in the west, at least not in many countries yet, surely the US, UK and such countries are "way behind", however, it is a completely normal and accepted practice in some western-european countries like Austria. For example, there is a fascinating BBC documentary about The Girl Who Never Ate, in which this british girl, whom the NHS could not heal, is taken by her family (having no other choice left) to this clinic in Austria that has a 100% (!) success rate and where CT is practised routinely (wonder why? maybe... it works?). The thing is, they've never treated children of this girl's age (she was 7 at the time), so she is a real challenge. If you want to know what happened, watch the whole documentary:

http://www.youtube.c...lpARXhoZY#t=671

The part about the physiotherapist that uses CT starts at 16:20 Almost makes me cry just watching!

This Chi is probably the thing that breatharians use as well. Funny how there are almost no documentaries about Breatharianism. The best one I've seen so far is In the Beginning There Was Light, but it's mostly in german, and finding English subtitles was quite a bit of a challenge even for me, but was worth it. It tells the stories of many such people, many of whom go voluntarily to different medical institutes (MI) to be observed and examined to prove that they're not fakers, but I especially love the story of this german guy that goes to one such MI in Switzerland to be checked and allows them to do tests on him for weeks on the condition that they will publish all the results, and of course when they're done they never do, and he goes to another one is Austria and the same thing happens. WTF??

So what do you guys think? What's going on here? What is it that big pharma doesn't want us to know? It isn't hard to see, imagine the entire population of the Earth being able to heal themselves, not requiring food from supermarkets and using zero point free energy devices for their households. The PTB would be in deep cr@p in no time. Spiritual awakening for humanity is not exactly their agenda. Disempowerment through cultural conditioning, indoctrination ("education"), dumbing down (GM food and additives) and distraction ("entertainment") however sure is! Just my opinion, this last paragraph, but I want to hear (or read) yours!

Well, it's catching up a bit in the west I believe. Most people though remain sceptical. The western logical mind will be unable to accept
the existence of the Chi. It has been used from a long long time, no one can say for sure who started it. But this is certain that not just anyone can actually
heal people. The selfless intention, dedication to the sick, focus, healthy life style of the practitioner etc are very important. It almost needs a person like Hippocrates tries to inspire
through his oath, so how many such people exist? Reiki uses chi, budhist monks use it, ascetics and sadhus ( those not busy ripping off simple devotees) actually use it quite easily.
But again it's the west, if btoh sciences or all different kinds of mediacl disciplines of the world are properly combined, many diseases can be cured in a shorter time and with a low cost.

[HIMALAYANMYSTIC

#43    SSilhouette

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 01:32 AM

View PostNighthawk9653, on 13 December 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

Interesting.

Neat topic :D

Agreed.  If you are ill, it can't hurt at the same time you're seeing a doctor to simply make up your mind to think positively.  Even if you are dying you can just say "I'm going to live the hell out of the rest of my time and this disease is going to have to wait!"....And you really have to mean it too, abandon yourself completely to that mindset.  In a sense you have to already have died in your mind so that each day is a victorious middle finger to the illness. :tu:

..I'll bet a person untreated even who thinks that way vs the guy saying "oh god I'm going to die!!" every 5 minutes in his head, will outlive that guy by months if not years.

We are all going to die of something.  And the person who puts off their disease within reason and refuses to let it rule their life is way ahead of the game.

Edited by SSilhouette, 09 August 2014 - 01:36 AM.


#44    Ryu

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 12:25 PM

View Posthimalyanmystic, on 04 August 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

Most people though remain sceptical. The western logical mind will be unable to accept
the existence of the Chi.

Ah..here we go again. Us horrible "westerners" (or anyone, really) just refuse to buckle down and believe on command like good little doggies.

It is not so much a inability to accept but the idea of being compelled to accept something that has, so far, no real basis of support for its supposed existence. Furthermore I think many are beginning to tire of people using mysticism as a means to try and make people accept something especially when the very term is consistently described in very vague and ambiguous manners.


#45    Rolci

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 10:32 AM

I believe I have uncovered the mechanism the healers in these hospitals use. The reason it took me so long is because I have never made any investigations into hypnosis. I have recently begun doing some research, and have so far found what I believe not only explains how these healers heal, but also a possible link between these healings and other fringy and metaphysical and spiritual mysteries like placebo, NLP, creative visualisation, the Law of Attraction from the Secret, EFT tapping, sigils, affirmations and psychic surgery. Actually I am in the process of compiling a vast amount of data on these an more, which  will be posting in a new topic here tomorrow. I already see skeptics rubbing their hands together in anticipation of fresh meat to debunk.

The mechanism I'm talking about will be fully revealed in tomorrow's topic, as the subjects included will be more varied, but I thought since quite a bit of it will be about healing, I'd post my most recent finding here as it seems to be highly relevant to what's going on in these hospitals. Instead of giving you a lengthy explanation I will instead quote from a website. I expect this to be new info for many readers, as Emile Coué doesn't seem to be a well-known figure nowadays. Just so you have some idea who he was:

"He did not consider himself a genius, did not despise professional contemporaries, did not suffer from paranoid delusions, did not have “strong compulsions to focus his attacks on the greater scientists and their theories,” or write in a complex, technical jargon. Quite the opposite was true: the pudgy chemist was extremely modest and self-deprecating, never claiming to have been an original thinker; he saw himself as an ally rather than a foe of the medical and scientific establishment; the jovial old man was anything but paranoid, and he could not have confused any literate person with his plain-worded theory. All of this, of course, only served to increase his appeal. Note also that Coué refused to charge for his service as autosuggestionist and lecturer; one hesitates to brand him a charlatan because of his unmistakable charity."

Pretty much the same as Edgar Cayce.

And here is what he's achieved in one of his visits to America:

"In Chicago Coué was greeted as if he were a true messiah: In Michigan Avenue people knelt to him as he passed into the hall, and begged him to help them, and mothers held their wizened babies up to him, imploring him to heal their crooked bodies. Others paid fabulous sums to owners of front row seats, and once there, hoisted themselves painfully onto the stage, and panting crawled on helpless limbs to a spot where they might hope to catch the eye of the ‘Miracle Man.’ One after another crippled or paralyzed men and women dragged themselves or were wheeled to him and under his encouragement, as though under magic touch, threw away their crutches or canes and walked. Some who had not walked for years, even ran. Others recovered instantaneously the flexibility of long-stiffened limbs. A woman, paralyzed nine years and unable to walk, walked off the stage unaided. From a young man who trails a useless leg, Coué snatched his cane and bid him walk, and the man strutted along the footlights while the huge audience, fanned to frenzied mysticism, yelled its wildest. Policemen had to come to the platform to keep order and prevent Coué from being swamped by the rush of wondering spectators at the ‘miracles’ of auto-suggestion performed on people possessed of blind faith."

source: http://gordonsander....ter-and-better/

He had many similar achievements in other cities and countries, the above was simply an example. I have actually read his book Self Mastery Through Concious Autosuggestion. It's only 22 pages, and I highly recommend it not just for healing but also for spiritual purposes.

More to come tomorrow in my new topic, just doing the finishing touches. Until then.

Edited by Rolci, 28 August 2014 - 10:37 AM.

Best piece of truth I have found so far: http://llresearch.or...of_one_pdf.aspx
A truly free society: https://sites.google...t-economy-today
The true history of our planet: http://www.floating-...rth_history.htm
Dialogues with The Absolute: unveiledsecretsandmessagesoflight.blogspot (dot) co (dot) uk/2011/08/eon-11aug2010.html
A wealth of metaphysical readings with a surprisingly high ratio of truth content: soulwise (dot) net/index-00.htm




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