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If Religion is so AWESOME tell me WHY?


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#1    soulpowertothenthdegree

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Posted 22 December 2013 - 11:55 PM

We live in a world where religion is paramount to our existence as a human.  You are either on the side that believes or doesn't believe the stories of the Bible, Koran, or numerous other religious based texts, but I just have a very basic problem with this religion concept.  It has absolutely no basis for existing if the the fundamental reason is to extoll the virtues of righteousness.

How can you pray to a GOD about anything one minute and then be completely immoral the next?  Religion is steeped in hypocrisy.  Do you really need to have religion in your life to know what is right or wrong?  I don't.  I know what is right and what is wrong.

Ask yourself why you are buying Christmas presents and celebrating a ridiculous notion that is the basis for the economic stimulus we use to survive in our fake commercialized society?

I watch the news and see stories about the Pope having a desire to change the way the Vatican operates; that would be great, right?  If it wasn't a crock of poop.

The fact is, as long as there are homeless people and starving people living on this planet, religion is a farce.

Could religion have merits?  Sure.  But as it stands right now, there is no merit at all to believing or praying to any fake GODs for the sake of redemption in your afterlife.  Give him your sins?  Really?  How about just not sinning.  Sure, you see this and think of me being on my soap box with my high horse, but I am not a fake and I completely understand that we all can make mistakes; learning from them is the key and not hurting others deliberately is paramount.

I don't need religion to understand right from wrong; do you?

Soul

Edited by Daughter of the Nine Moons, 23 December 2013 - 03:07 AM.
Removed large annoying font

GIVE ME THE ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THE THINGS I HAVE NO CONTROL OVER, (PEOPLE, PLACES & THINGS);
GIVE ME THE ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THE THINGS I DO HAVE CONTROL OVER, (ME, MYSELF & I);
GIVE ME THE ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO!!


#2    and then

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:04 AM

Religion is man made.  God made man.  Religion is as subject to wrongdoing and harming others as any individual human is.  Belief in and the seeking out of our Creator is, to me, not about religion - it's about finding spiritual fulfillment through faith in the unseen.  All the sins you placed at the doorstep of the  "church" (religions) are accurate to one extent or another but I disagree that no  real benefits can be said to have come from man's attempt to codify and spread the spirit of the Creator in the form of holy texts and charity to the suffering.

  Imagination is the power in the turn of a phrase.

#3    DeWitz

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 02:22 AM

AT above provides a reasonable context for this kind of discussion. Diatribes against religion for hypocrisy,  inherent contradictions and buttressing a godless economic system are a dime a dozen. Perhaps some emotional energy devoted to the 20 million victims of failed atheist seminarian Josef Stalin; the unspeaksable and innumerable crimes of the megalomaniacal Hitler, murderer of Jews, Christians, gay people, the Roma, people with physical disabilities and mental health diagnoses and countless more; the godless miscreant Mao Zedong, his acolyte Pol Pot and on and on and on, and perhaps there might be some balance in your reportage. As it is, atheists, agnostics, non-believers of all stripes have no claim to any moral high ground I can see.

Had I lived in Hitler's "Thousand Year Reich" (the coward only made it for 12) I would have been incinerated because of my medical diagnosis. I know of no institutional Christian or Jewish expression that would do anything but its level best to keep me alive as long as possible (I am undereducated about expressions of Islam). Things that make you go "Hmmmm. . . . . ."

Edited by DeWitz, 23 December 2013 - 02:25 AM.

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#4    LostSouls7

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 02:24 AM

Hitler did have a religion though. He did black magic and summoned demons.

Edited by LostSouls7, 23 December 2013 - 02:26 AM.

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#5    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 02:30 AM

View PostLostSouls7, on 23 December 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

Hitler did have a religion though. He did black magic and summoned demons.
Sorry what now?


#6    Frank Merton

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 02:31 AM

I think some aspects of religion are great; the rituals and processions (so long as they aren't bloody), the great buildings and wonderful music, the provision by many religions of places peace and safety for people to go to, the counseling (as long as it is well trained) and charitable work religion often motivates.


#7    Rye17

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 02:42 AM

I believe religion was only created to explain the things that couldn't be explained. Once we figured out what thunder was and why volcanoes erupt we don't need an invisible man in the sky to blame when the mountain on the island over there explodes


#8    Frank Merton

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 02:44 AM

View PostRye17, on 23 December 2013 - 02:42 AM, said:

I believe religion was only created to explain the things that couldn't be explained. Once we figured out what thunder was and why volcanoes erupt we don't need an invisible man in the sky to blame when the mountain on the island over there explodes
I think religion obviously has been used for this sort of thing, but I doubt it is the real reason for religions.


#9    The Silver Thong

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 02:47 AM

Religion is a tool to comfort the weak sick and dying. Its no longer needed but still has a purpose that take to it for those very reasons.

Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course.


The only thing god can't do is prove he exists ?

#10    _Only

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 02:50 AM

I saw in the body of the text of the OP a complaint that people can try to be good and right at one moment, and do wrong the next.

I'm reminded of an exchange in the video game Fallout: New Vegas, where the player character interacts with a Mormon leader/missionary. His status as such a prophet/holy man of high status made his blunt honesty hit home so well:

Joshua Graham: We must do our best to walk in the footsteps of our Lord and teach others to do the same. For many of us, the road is a difficult one, but the path is always there for us to follow, no matter how many times we may fall.
Courier:Do you ever "fall"?
Joshua Graham: Every day. Some days... are harder than others.

"Falling" being doing wrong. This man, though a holy man and teacher to others, knew enough to realize that he was not, nor ever will be, perfect, yet would not let any failure in being and doing right stop him from trying. It was the belief in his God that helped him with this endless fight. He understood that people could, and do, bad things, yet it doesn't make them liars/hypocrites. It only makes them human beings.

You seem to be able to fight this fight on your own, and while you may or may not be fit to tackle this in the long run, some don't feel the same way. There are people of all different backgrounds and situations, many of which you wouldn't understand. This alone should probably stop you from trying to judge their choices, which aren't the same as your own.

Lastly, a reasonable atheist's answer to you would be that 'right and wrong' are subjective ideas, and religions help form what right and wrong should be to people. This would be considered a fundamental aspect of religion. Not 'extolling' righteousness, but defining it.



Why is religious AWESOME?

I don't know, but I know it can do a lot of good, or a lot of bad. But such is life, right?

Edited by Daughter of the Nine Moons, 23 December 2013 - 03:15 AM.
fixed formatting

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#11    DeWitz

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 02:54 AM

View PostLostSouls7, on 23 December 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

Hitler did have a religion though. He did black magic and summoned demons.

The idea that Hitler was an aficionado of the occult or the "Black Arts" is overdone. There's lots of stuff out there in the public domain referencing Hitler's quest for,for example, the Spear of Longinus, putatively the implement that pierced Jesus' side as he hung from the cross.. Hitler was a monomaniacal narcissist who used anything, anybody and everything he could to attempt to enhance his damaged, murderous and souless psyche. It is more probable that the evil Corporal was on a vendetta against the Allied powers because they gassed him in WW I, than he was an earlier version of Steve Ditko's/Marvel Comics anti-hero Dr. Strange.

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#12    DeWitz

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 02:57 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 23 December 2013 - 02:44 AM, said:

I think religion obviously has been used for this sort of thing, but I doubt it is the real reason for religions.


View PostThe Silver Thong, on 23 December 2013 - 02:47 AM, said:

Religion is a tool to comfort the weak sick and dying. Its no longer needed but still has a purpose that take to it for those very reasons.

Almost all of us will one day be weak, sick and dying (multitudes are there already, starving, dying of treatable and even curable diseases).

Does it not stand to reason that we all may "need" religion as a result of your cogent analysis here?

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#13    Frank Merton

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 03:01 AM

Whether in time of trouble we turn to religion or not is a matter for each person.  Some will find it helpful some won't.


#14    Daughter of the Nine Moons

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 03:05 AM

View Postsoulpowertothenthdegree, on 22 December 2013 - 11:55 PM, said:

We live in a world where religion is paramount to our existence as a human.  You are either on the side that believes or doesn't believe the stories of the Bible, Koran, or numerous other religious based texts,***

Actually there is another option. Those like myself who consider themselves agnostic. In other words I don't know if there is a God and truthfully I am not too troubled by it either way.


***removed large formatting from quote because it is annoying

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#15    Daughter of the Nine Moons

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 03:09 AM

I have moved this thread to SvS. As a reminder:

'Spirituality vs Skepticism' board guidelines Please always respect the beliefs of other members - the bashing of specific religions, countries, races or belief systems is strictly disallowed. Several of the topics in this section cover some sensitive areas and it is important to respect the views of others; this means no flaming, no flamebaiting, no trolling and no personal attacks. We must also ask that members do not use the forums to promote or 'preach' their personal spiritual beliefs to others.

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