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Alive or Dead? What Would You Do?


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#1    Estimated Prophet

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 02:25 PM

Alive or dead?
What would you do?

An Oakland family whose 13-year-old daughter has been declared brain dead is hoping to celebrate Christmas in the hospital with her after a judge ordered hospital officials to keep her connected to a breathing machine.

Jahi McMath was declared brain dead after experiencing complications following a tonsillectomy at Children's Hospital in Oakland.

As her family sat stone-faced in the front row of the courtroom, an Alameda County judge on Monday called for Jahi to be independently examined by Paul Graham Fisher, the chief of child neurology at Stanford University School of Medicine. The judge also ordered the hospital to keep Jahi on a ventilator until Dec. 30, or until further order from the court.

Read the rest of the article here - http://www.nbcnews.c...99#.UrmW8S1OnFR

Edited by Still Waters, 24 December 2013 - 02:38 PM.
Reduced amount of copied text


#2    Taun

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 02:57 PM

This is a "no win" tragedy no matter how it pans out... I have no idea how I would decide, if it were my child... But unfortunately at some point the sheer emotional and financial cost would be
too great... eventually this child will have to be taken off of life support.. The gut wrenching question is - when?...

Edited by Taun, 24 December 2013 - 02:57 PM.


#3    libstaK

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 03:00 PM

:cry:  I want to understand how with all the advances in medical procedures today, this girl was subject to a situation where she bled so profusely.  I mean whole hearts are transplanted without this result and this was about the tonsils?  I just don't get it.

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#4    Still Waters

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 03:08 PM

I would pray for a miracle. Other than that I feel it's one of those situations where you can't really say what you'd do unless it's happening to you. Terribly sad article.

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#5    and then

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 03:09 PM

View PostlibstaK, on 24 December 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

:cry:  I want to understand how with all the advances in medical procedures today, this girl was subject to a situation where she bled so profusely.  I mean whole hearts are transplanted without this result and this was about the tonsils?  I just don't get it.
Sometimes things just go wrong.  Sometimes doctors make mistakes despite every precaution and other times docs can be negligent.  Thankfully these kinds of tragedies are relatively rare but with our system being roiled by changes these days they will sadly become more common I'm afraid.  Such a horrible situation for her family.  Keeping her body alive in a CCU of a major hospital will cost someone (probably the hospital)  thousands of dollars per day.  Once rationing begins, these decisions are going to really cause strife and screams of bias and unfairness.

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#6    FLOMBIE

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 03:10 PM

Every surgery bears a risk. People even die during breast augmentations.


#7    Purplos

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 03:29 PM

Horrible decision to have to make, and a shame the courts are making it instead of the family.

If multiple doctors said my child was brain dead and the chance of him ever coming back where basically nil, or even extremely small, I would let him go. This may have something to do with my beliefs, but I would think they had something else to go do and their time with me was over. I'm not sure I would survive it either though.

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#8    aztek

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 04:40 PM

it is very hard to put down old sick dog than is part of the family. i can't imagine what it'd take to pull a plug on your own child.

Edited by aztek, 24 December 2013 - 04:40 PM.

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#9    Babe Ruth

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Posted 24 December 2013 - 07:45 PM

Having been through my own NDE almost 7 years ago, I would let the child go.  If it were my own child and the situation developed as this one has, I would let the child go.


#10    coolguy

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 05:43 AM

If the parents know 100 percent that there child can't come out of it and recover fully then they should let the child go in peace.
They are giving them selfs false hope, in the real world only like 1 percent of people come out of and if its as bad as the doc say then do what's best or the kid


#11    Rafterman

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 03:31 PM

View PostlibstaK, on 24 December 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

:cry:  I want to understand how with all the advances in medical procedures today, this girl was subject to a situation where she bled so profusely.  I mean whole hearts are transplanted without this result and this was about the tonsils?  I just don't get it.

You can say that about a lot of things.  They shouldn't happen, but they do - even under the best of circumstances.

Nothing is 100% fully safe.

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#12    lightly

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 01:30 PM

maybe the judge was just trying to give the family time to come to terms with the reality of it?

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#13    Still Waters

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 04:09 PM

Update -

Quote

The family of a US teenager declared brain dead after a routine operation went wrong has won an extension to the court order keeping her alive.

On Monday, Alameda County Superior Court Judge Evelio Grillo ordered the hospital to maintain Jahi on a ventilator until 7 January.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...canada-25552818

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#14    JGirl

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 04:26 PM

let her go. to do otherwise is selfish and useless


#15    and then

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 06:27 PM

http://abclocal.go.c...tate&id=9376174

By now most who stay tuned to the news have heard of the tragedy of this 13 year old child who died during a routine surgery.  By current standards she bled out and became brain dead due to loss of blood.  She was resuscitated and put on a vent but shows no brain activity at all.  Essentially she is being kept alive by her brain stem and a machine.  At her age and in apparently good health prior to this tragedy, her body could continue breathing for years.  At current rates her care could run into the millions of dollars.  NO insurance at any level could cover this expense so of course the taxpayer is on the hook.  So my question is this - who gets to make this decision?  The mother wants the machine to be forever or until her daughter "wakes up".  This is understandable and it's a horrible tragedy to lose a child but the reality is that barring a miracle the child will never recover and the millions in care she will need could actually make a difference in the lives of many who CAN be helped.  So in steps the ipab at some point and says no, it's too little chance of benefit for too great an outlay.  It sounds imminently reasonable until the person who is dying is a loved one...
Edit - sorry, mods... I didn't see that the topic already had a thread.  My approach is more about the connection of the IPAB so can you please combine it with the other thread?

Edited by and then, 31 December 2013 - 06:30 PM.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...




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