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Mahmoud Abbas: "Jesus was 'Palestinian"


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#61    and then

and then

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 06:09 PM

If the land that is now called Palestine is reconquered totally by the Jews of Israel and they lay claim to everything between the Nile and the Euphrates (as an example) would we then be correct to call him an Israeli?  And if so then what possible difference would a label have (if one is trying to be consistent in NAMING anything?)  The point of all this exercise for Abbas was to de-legitimize Israel's claim to the land at ANY point in history.  It's just another example of the big lie.  In this act the Palestinians are like 5 year old children in the midst of an argument - if they believe it and say it often enough then for them it is true and what other's think is immaterial to them.  That is their right but it doesn't mean that others need be restrained by it in any way.

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#62    Erikl

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 06:18 PM

Quote

Believe what you want, but it is not incorrect to refer to a 10th century Inuit as Canadian or Alaskan. Most would probably precede the label with the word "ancient" or a synonym thereof.

This is not an anachronism because there is no chronological inconsistency. Having the 10th century Inuit refer to him/herself as Canadian or Alaskan would be anachronistic, but not us referring to to them as such.

Indeed, most would understand what your are saying, but it will still be wrong, logically and chronologically. St. Nicholas (Santa Claus) was a Byzantine Christian from 3rd century Anatolia. Would you call him a Turkish Christian? ofcourse not. Not only did Turkey not exist as a state back then, the region itself was not called Turkey (it actually wasn't called Byzantine Empire as well, but was part of the Roman Empire), and the Turkish language was not spoken there.

Would accept then that Jesus was an Israeli? after all, he was "Jesus of Nazareth" and Nazareth is a city in Israel.

This latest Palestinian propaganda works well because many people do not understand that it's anachronistic - and calling Jesus a Palestinian is anachronistic and in this case is used to rob a nation  (Jews) of one of it's most influential famous figures (Jesus) in a larger skim to undermine the historical ties of this nation to a land (Israel). You can argue with that as much as you want because you believe otherwise; that doesn't change this fact.

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#63    Erikl

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 06:20 PM

View Postand then, on 31 December 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

If the land that is now called Palestine is reconquered totally by the Jews of Israel and they lay claim to everything between the Nile and the Euphrates (as an example) would we then be correct to call him an Israeli?  And if so then what possible difference would a label have (if one is trying to be consistent in NAMING anything?)  The point of all this exercise for Abbas was to de-legitimize Israel's claim to the land at ANY point in history.  It's just another example of the big lie.  In this act the Palestinians are like 5 year old children in the midst of an argument - if they believe it and say it often enough then for them it is true and what other's think is immaterial to them.  That is their right but it doesn't mean that others need be restrained by it in any way.

And then, you took the words out of my keyboard lol. I pushed "Post" before reading the very same question (albeit asked differently). According to Leonardo's logic, Jesus should be called Israeli, since Nazareth is a city in Israel, and as of yet there is no country or a state called Palestine.

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#64    spud the mackem

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 09:31 PM

Is this guy just stirring up crap again, why doesn't he take a day off and be good for a change.

(1) try your best, ............if that dont work.
(2) try your second best, ........if that dont work
(3) give up you aint gonna win

#65    third_eye

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 11:29 PM



Quote

Etymology

Nazareth is not mentioned in pre-Christian texts and appears in many different Greek forms in the New Testament. There is no consensus regarding the origin of the name.[8] One conjecture holds that "Nazareth" is derived from one[9] of the Hebrew words for 'branch', namely ne·ṣer, נֵ֫צֶר, and alludes to the prophetic, messianic words in Book of Isaiah 11:1, 'from (Jesse's) roots a Branch (netzer) will bear fruit.' One view suggests this toponym might be an example of a tribal name used by resettling groups on their return from exile.[10] Alternatively, the name may derive from the verb na·ṣar, נָצַר, "watch, guard, keep,"[11] and understood either in the sense of "watchtower" or "guard place", implying the early town was perched on or near the brow of the hill, or, in the passive sense as 'preserved, protected' in reference to its secluded position.[12] The negative references to Nazareth in the Gospel of John suggest that ancient Jews did not connect the town's name to prophecy.[13]


Quote

The Lost City

The Gospels tell us that Jesus's home town was the 'City of Nazareth' ('polis Natzoree'):


And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a CITY of Galilee, named Nazareth, To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.
(Luke1.26,27)

And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the CITY of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; because he was of the house and lineage of David:
(Luke 2.3,4)

But when he heard that Archelaus did reign in Judaea in the room of his father Herod, he was afraid to go thither: notwithstanding, being warned of God in a dream, he turned aside into the parts of Galilee: And he came and dwelt in a CITY called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.
(Matthew 2.22,23)

And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own CITY Nazareth. And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
(Luke 2.39,40)


The gospels do not tell us much about this 'city' – it has a synagogue, it can scare up a hostile crowd (prompting JC's famous "prophet rejected in his own land" quote), and it has a precipice – but the city status of Nazareth is clearly established, at least according to that source of nonsense called the Bible.

However when we look for historical confirmation of this hometown of a god – surprise, surprise! – no other source confirms that the place even existed in the 1st century AD.

• Nazareth is not mentioned even once in the entire Old Testament. The Book of Joshua (19.10,16) – in what it claims is the process of settlement by the tribe of Zebulon in the area – records twelve towns and six villages and yet omits any 'Nazareth' from its list.

• The Talmud, although it names 63 Galilean towns, knows nothing of Nazareth, nor does early rabbinic literature.

• St Paul knows nothing of 'Nazareth'. Rabbi Solly's epistles (real and fake) mention Jesus 221 times, Nazareth not at all.

• No ancient historian or geographer mentions Nazareth. It is first noted at the beginning of the 4th century.

None of this would matter of course if, rather like at the nearby 'pagan' city of Sepphoris, we could stroll through the ruins of 1st century bath houses, villas, theatres etc. Yet no such ruins exist.

The Lost City
The Gospels tell us that Jesus's home town was the 'City of Nazareth' ('polis Natzoree'):



And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a CITY of Galilee, named Nazareth, To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary.
(Luke1.26,27)

And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the CITY of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; because he was of the house and lineage of David:
(Luke 2.3,4)

But when he heard that Archelaus did reign in Judaea in the room of his father Herod, he was afraid to go thither: notwithstanding, being warned of God in a dream, he turned aside into the parts of Galilee: And he came and dwelt in a CITY called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.
(Matthew 2.22,23)

And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own CITY Nazareth. And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
(Luke 2.39,40)



The gospels do not tell us much about this 'city' – it has a synagogue, it can scare up a hostile crowd (prompting JC's famous "prophet rejected in his own land" quote), and it has a precipice – but the city status of Nazareth is clearly established, at least according to that source of nonsense called the Bible.
However when we look for historical confirmation of this hometown of a god – surprise, surprise! – no other source confirms that the place even existed in the 1st century AD.


• Nazareth is not mentioned even once in the entire Old Testament. The Book of Joshua (19.10,16) – in what it claims is the process of settlement by the tribe of Zebulon in the area – records twelve towns and six villages and yet omits any 'Nazareth' from its list.
• The Talmud, although it names 63 Galilean towns, knows nothing of Nazareth, nor does early rabbinic literature.
St Paul knows nothing of 'Nazareth'. Rabbi Solly's epistles (real and fake) mention Jesus 221 times, Nazareth not at all.
• No ancient historian or geographer mentions Nazareth. It is first noted at the beginning of the 4th century.

- See more at: http://www.jesusneve...h.lW58jEib.dpuf


Sources:
René Salm, The Myth of Nazareth (Kevalin, 2007)
Dan Cohn-Sherbok, The Crucified Jew (Harper Collins,1992)
Henry Hart Milman, The History of the Jews (Everyman, 1939)
Josephus, The Jewish War (Penguin, 1959)
Jonathan Reed, Archaeology and the Galilean Jesus: A Re-examination of the Evidence (Trinity, 2002)
Leslie Houlden (Ed.), Judaism & Christianity (Routledge, 1988
Karen Armstrong, A History of Jerusalem (Harper Collins, 1999)
Jonathan N. Tubb, Canaanites (British Museum Press, 1998)
Norman Cantor, The Sacred Chain - A History of the Jews (Harper Collins, 1994) - See more at: http://www.jesusneve...h.lW58jEib.dpuf

  • jesusneverexisted link


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#66    Yamato

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 08:28 AM

I'll do one better than Abbas:

We Are All Palestinians

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#67    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 11:08 PM

View PostYamato, on 02 January 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

I'll do one better than Abbas:

We Are All Palestinians
I'll do one better then Yamato:
I'm Batman.

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#68    third_eye

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 06:29 AM

yea and yowwie .... " I am SPARTA !!!! "

Quote

' ... life and death carry on as they always have ~ and always will, only the dreamer is gone ~ behind the flow of imagination, beyond any effort to be still
dancing in the ebb and flow of attention, more present than the breath, I find the origins of my illusions, only the dreamer is gone ~ the dream never ends
'

GIFTS WITH NO GIVER - a love affair with truth ~ Poems by Nirmala

third_eye ' s cavern ~ bring own beer


#69    Phaeton80

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 02:30 PM

View PostYamato, on 02 January 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

I'll do one better than Abbas:

We Are All Palestinians

Given the path we are on, the way the chesspieces are being positioned, 'we' certainly will be.

And we would more or less - as a society - deserve it.


#70    Leonardo

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 02:46 PM

View Postand then, on 31 December 2013 - 06:09 PM, said:

It's just another example of the big lie.  In this act the Palestinians are like 5 year old children in the midst of an argument -

...with other 5 year old children.

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#71    and then

and then

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 06:34 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 05 January 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

...with other 5 year old children.
Fair enough - I guess.  Ultimately there will be no agreement until one side or the other has bled to a point where they are about to collapse.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#72    Yamato

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 09:45 PM

View PostPhaeton80, on 05 January 2014 - 02:30 PM, said:

Given the path we are on, the way the chesspieces are being positioned, 'we' certainly will be.

And we would more or less - as a society - deserve it.
1984 is on the way, I'd say.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#73    Phaeton80

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 07:18 PM

Seems so.

It will be interesting to see which will cross the finish first; awareness or fascism.

Let the cards fall where they may.


#74    Yamato

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:46 PM

Awareness or ignorance; individuality or Corporatocracy

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#75    RavenHawk

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 09:09 PM

I can accept that Jesus and the other Jews were Palestinians.  As the Canaanites were Palestinians before them.  And after 135 AD to sometime after 1 AH was a whole different culture because the main Jewish influence was gone.  Then from there to about 1300 there was at least one more different culture.  When the Ottoman Empire took over, were the people there Palestinian or Ottoman?  In the previous example, prior to about 1848, those that lived on the Italian Peninsula where not considered Italian.  They were Roman, Genoese, Venetian, etc.  So more than likely, those that lived in the region of Palestine were known by their tribal identity.  Palestinian was not really used until Israeli statehood became a possibility after 1922 and then it wasnt a self imposed identity.  There was no one cultural entity that was Palestinian.  Therefore, the people that are using the name Palestinian today are usurping the original identity.

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