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The Islamic point of view on so called Ghosts

ghost jinn

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#16    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 08:51 PM

The Silver Thong, davros of skaro,

Scepticism is perfectly allowable, rudeness is not, from the rules of this site:

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#17    davros of skaro

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 09:24 PM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 26 December 2013 - 08:51 PM, said:

The Silver Thong, davros of skaro,

Scepticism is perfectly allowable, rudeness is not, from the rules of this site:

The prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had magic done on him.A Jew sneaked in, and stole Hairs from the prophet's (pbuh) comb.The Jew put the hair in a Hyena's Skull, performed the magic, and threw the skull in a Well.This made the prophet (pbuh) think he had relations wife his wife when he did not for many nights before he realised the magic has been done to him.It's true, because it's written.

What's rude about asking for good magic from the prophet (pbuh) that will protect me if I am ever in the desert?

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#18    muslimexorcism

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 10:00 PM

View PostThe Silver Thong, on 26 December 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

- post removed -

The scary reality that we do agree upon is death.  Some people die today, some yesterday and some died a long time ago. If you think about the amount of people and creatures that have died in various ways then you know that death is really near and something nobody can escape. I believe i have a purpose in Life and that is to worship the creator of the heavens and the earth alone, the one who gave me life and the one who deserves to be worshipped alone because of many reasons.

I hope your signature is not your purpose in life:   "Sittin back drinkin beer watchin the world take it's course."

And God already proved he exists, you just don't seem to realize it yet.
Something to read:  http://jaafaridris.c...gods-existence/

Abu Huraira reported that a person said: Allah's Messenger, who amongst the people is most deserving of my good treatment? He said: Your mother, again your mother, again your mother, then your father, then your nearest relatives according to the order (of nearness). - Hadith - Sahih Muslim

#19    muslimexorcism

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 10:27 PM

Double

Edited by muslimexorcism, 26 December 2013 - 10:32 PM.

Abu Huraira reported that a person said: Allah's Messenger, who amongst the people is most deserving of my good treatment? He said: Your mother, again your mother, again your mother, then your father, then your nearest relatives according to the order (of nearness). - Hadith - Sahih Muslim

#20    muslimexorcism

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 10:29 PM

davros of skaro said:

It's true, because it's written.

For me it is true, because it is written in the Qur'an or authentic hadith but that's not the way any muslim who thinks logically would try to convince a non-muslim. I'm not going to discuss with an atheist and tell him the angel gabriel exists, because it says so in the Qur'an or hadith so don't try to make all believing people look stupid because of experiences you might have had with some people or any other reason.

If you look at most discussions muslims have with people of other faiths or with atheists then you will see that they prove their religion logically. I believe in God because of so and so reason. I believe in this prophet because of so and so reason. Either he's insane, a liar, a magician etc. Or he's a real prophet. We say he isn't insane or a liar or any other of the reasons people use to attack prophets, because of so and so reason and then we come to the conclusion that he's a prophet and follow him. If we muslims couldn't convince anyone logically then why would islam be the fastest growing religion in the world. Just watch the different muslim convert stories on YT, you don't see them becoming muslim because of a dream they had for example.

Abu Huraira reported that a person said: Allah's Messenger, who amongst the people is most deserving of my good treatment? He said: Your mother, again your mother, again your mother, then your father, then your nearest relatives according to the order (of nearness). - Hadith - Sahih Muslim

#21    davros of skaro

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 12:36 AM

"If you look at most discussions muslims have with people of other faiths or with atheists then you will see that they prove their religion logically."


The Noble Qur'an - Al-Hijr 15:26-42

26. And indeed, We created man from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud.

27. And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire.

28. And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "I am going to create a man (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud.

29. "So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul which I created for him, then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him."

30. So, the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together.

31. Except Iblîs (Satan), - he refused to be among the prostrators.

32. (Allâh) said: "O Iblîs (Satan)! What is your reason for not being among the prostrators?"

33. [Iblîs (Satan)] said: "I am not the one to prostrate myself to a human being, whom You created from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud."

34. (Allâh) said: "Then, get out from here, for verily, you are Rajîm (an outcast or a cursed one)." [Tafsîr At-Tabarî]

35. "And verily, the curse shall be upon you till the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)."

36. [Iblîs (Satan)] said: "O my Lord! Give me then respite till the Day they (the dead) will be resurrected."

37. Allâh said: "Then, verily, you are of those reprieved,

38. "Till the Day of the time appointed."

39. [Iblîs (Satan)] said: "O my Lord! Because you misled me, I shall indeed adorn the path of error for them (mankind) on the earth, and I shall mislead them all.

40. "Except Your chosen, (guided) slaves among them."

41. (Allâh) said: "This is the Way which will lead straight to Me."

42. "Certainly, you shall have no authority over My slaves, except those who follow you of the Ghâwîn (Mushrikûn and those who go astray, criminals, polytheists, and evil-doers, etc.).


The Noble Qur'an - An-Naml 27:17-19

17. And there were gathered before Sulaimân (Solomon) his hosts of jinns and men, and birds, and they all were set in battle order (marching forwards).

18. Till, when they came to the valley of the ants, one of the ants said: "O ants! Enter your dwellings, lest Sulaimân (Solomon) and his hosts crush you, while they perceive not."

19. So he [Sulaimân (Solomon)] smiled, amused at her speech[] and said: "My Lord! Inspire and bestow upon me the power and ability that I may be grateful for Your Favours which You have bestowed on me and on my parents, and that I may do righteous good deeds that will please You, and admit me by Your Mercy among Your righteous slaves."


Hadith - Sahih Muslim 6757, Narrated Abdullah ibn Mas'ud, similar narration 6759 by 'Aisha, r.a.
Allah's Apostle said: There is none amongst you with whom is not an attache from amongst the jinn (devil). They (the Companions) said: Allah's Apostle with you too? Thereupon he said: Yes, but Allah helps me against him and so I am safe from his hand and he does not command me but for good.


Fiqh 4.124
Anas reported that the Prophet said, "The barrier between the eyes of the Jinn and the nakedness of the Children of Adam is [created] when a Muslim discards a garment and says, 'In the name of Allah besides Whom there is no other god'."


Hadith - Ahmad, an-Nasa'i, Dawud, al-Hakim and al-Baihaqi
Qatadah related from 'Abdullah ibn Sarjas who said, "The Messenger of Allah forbade urination into a hole." Said Qatadah, "What is disliked about urinating into a hole?" Said he, "It is the residence of the jinn."


Hadith - Sahih Bukhari 4:533, Narrated Jabi bin 'Abdullah  

The Prophet said, "Cover your utensils and tie your water skins, and close your doors and keep your children close to you at night, as the Jinns spread out at such time and snatch things away. When you go to bed, put out your lights, for the mischief-doer (i.e. the rat) may drag away the wick of the candle and burn the dwellers of the house."


Hadith - Sunan of Abu Dawood, Narrated Abu Sa'id al-Khudri
Muhammad ibn AbuYahya said that his father told that he and his companion went to AbuSa'id al-Khudri to pay a sick visit to him. He said: Then we came out from him and met a companion of ours who wanted to go to him. We went ahead and sat in the mosque. He then came back and told us that he heard AbuSa'id al-Khudri say: The Apostle of Allah said: Some snakes are jinn; so when anyone sees one of them in his house, he should give it a warning three times. If it return (after that), he should kill it, for it is a devil.


Hadith - Al-Muwatta 54.33
...The snake stirred on the end of the spear and the youth fell dead. No one knew which of them died first, the snake or the youth. That was mentioned to the Messenger of Allah said, "There are jinn in Madina who have become muslim. When you see one of them, call out to it for three days. If it appears after that, then kill it, for it is a shaytan (Devils.)"


Hadith - Muwatta, 49.21
...Shaytan does not open a locked door or untie a tied knot, or uncover a vessel.


Hadith - Tirmidhi #350
Allah's Messenger said: Don't cleanse yourself with dung or with bones for that is the food of your brothers from amongst the Jinn.





Edited by davros of skaro, 27 December 2013 - 12:41 AM.

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#22    Rafterman

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 01:14 AM

Monstertalk did a great episode on the Jinn mythos a couple of years ago.

Episode notes and podcast download at the link:

http://www.skeptic.c...rtalk/11/12/07/

The discussion is with author Robert Lebling following the publication of his then new book "Legends of the Fire Spirits:  Jinn and Genies from Arabia to Zanzibar".



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#23    muslimexorcism

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 01:33 AM

davros of skaro i don't get it? Are you preaching islam now or what? Do you think you found contradictions? Something wich the human mind cannot accept? everything you say against islam has already been said and has already been answered by muslims, read books and use google, so i don't see any point in us having discussions here about islam being true or not. We all know discussions mostly don't help people in finding truth, because you are trying to convince me and i you and if i beat you or you me we will try to seek an answer against each other to defeat each other, so there's mostly no point in discussions and debates as has been proven by experience.

Also that you may know. The only sources wich you mentioned that a muslim can take without looking at it's authentication are the quran, sahih bukhari and sahih muslim as for all the other sources then they need checking as has been done by islamic hadith scholars like al-Albaani the white europeon albanian great muslim scholar. So the other sources have weak and strong and fake narrations and somebody like you and me cannot distinghuish between them only by studying the knowledge of hadith or reading books of scholars like al-Albaani on this subject.

Abu Huraira reported that a person said: Allah's Messenger, who amongst the people is most deserving of my good treatment? He said: Your mother, again your mother, again your mother, then your father, then your nearest relatives according to the order (of nearness). - Hadith - Sahih Muslim

#24    davros of skaro

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 02:37 AM

View Postmuslimexorcism, on 27 December 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

davros of skaro i don't get it? Are you preaching islam now or what? Do you think you found contradictions? Something wich the human mind cannot accept? everything you say against islam has already been said and has already been answered by muslims, read books and use google, so i don't see any point in us having discussions here about islam being true or not. We all know discussions mostly don't help people in finding truth, because you are trying to convince me and i you and if i beat you or you me we will try to seek an answer against each other to defeat each other, so there's mostly no point in discussions and debates as has been proven by experience.

Also that you may know. The only sources wich you mentioned that a muslim can take without looking at it's authentication are the quran, sahih bukhari and sahih muslim as for all the other sources then they need checking as has been done by islamic hadith scholars like al-Albaani the white europeon albanian great muslim scholar. So the other sources have weak and strong and fake narrations and somebody like you and me cannot distinghuish between them only by studying the knowledge of hadith or reading books of scholars like al-Albaani on this subject.

Did you ever convert a Jinn to Islam?

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https://m.youtube.co...h?v=79Lmmy2jfeo <-- "The Mythical Jesus"

#25    Rlyeh

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 07:01 AM

View Postdavros of skaro, on 26 December 2013 - 08:41 PM, said:

What magic of Allah (pbuh) do I use for Scorpion, and Snake bites?
Drinking urine might help too

http://wikiislam.net..._Scholars:Urine


#26    Chosen Undead

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 07:32 AM

View Postmuslimexorcism, on 26 December 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:



I'm curious then how do you explain him and those who are possessed with the experiences they have? Just liars? Mental illnesses? Then how do you explain them feeling pain, getting cured by reading the Qur'an on them? How come Qur'an has affect on people who claim to be possesed. I'm not saying this to prove my religion (as i said i have my own reasons for believing) but it's something to think about.

They may not be liars, but they could very well have serious mental illnesses. I've lived in a country surrounded by superstition, and some folk are either afraid of scientific cures and treatments, and others don't quite have the resources to get help.

Put yourself in the shoes of such people, if some 'religious exorcist' guy comes in and offers to cure your 'possessed' family member, (practically offers to do same thing as a psychiatrist, for much less money, he also explains it to you in words you can understand), who would you choose if you have no knowledge of mental illnesses?

You know what, it doesn't have to be a Quran at all, all exorcisms I've seen involves some kind of 'call and response' kind of thing, shouting, screaming, hell,  he could be preaching verses from the bible or use the name of jesus, it doesn't seem to make any difference, it depends on whatever faith the exorcist belongs to.

Anyway, are these people cured? Do we see them again? The rest of their lives aren't well documented, are they?  

I go through one of the videos on the site, and one says "Doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong, power of Islam (or whatever) cured it", that could be hogwash, as not even you would believe everything that's said there. Where exactly did they seek medical help but failed?


#27    Chosen Undead

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 07:42 AM

View Postmuslimexorcism, on 26 December 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:


I didn't say that and place the videos to strengthen my belief. I have my own reasons why i believe something to be true. If i believe in God and i believe someone claiming to be a prophet then everything what he says is unquestionable for me. So if we were to discuss the truthfullness of this all we would be talking about does God exist(to atheists), true monotheism(to christians, jews and idol worshipers etc) , what makes you believe this man is a prophet etc. And this is not the topic to do that and it has been done numerous times, so what i would advise everyone is to investigate it for themselves and look up the reasons people believe and the argument they have and the answers they have against accusations if you're convinced believe if not then don't.


You brought up this point that pyramids, mental illness, and alien abductions and all other stuff could be explained by Djinns, I'm just asking you about that stuff. I didn't ask you to convince me god exists.

Don't misread me, I'm not bashing any religion or god here.. My post is in response to "Djinns explain everything" thing you said.

read post #26 too if you will, and respond if you care.


#28    Frank Merton

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 01:33 PM

Reading the passage supposedly from the Q'uran quoted above, is that for real?  Satan was expelled for refusing to bow to human Adam and God created the Jinn?


#29    muslimexorcism

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 02:23 PM

Space_Jockey said:

They may not be liars, but they could very well have serious mental illnesses. I've lived in a country surrounded by superstition, and some folk are either afraid of scientific cures and treatments, and others don't quite have the resources to get help.

So the one who's saying he's possessed and the exorcist himself have mental issues?  The videos i posted are about cases in the UK not in a place you described and the exorcist is completely healthy, so according to you he became mentally ill after he started exorcism? You should also know that we as muslims who follow the quran and sunnah truthfully do not discourage going to doctors etc. Some even say go to a doctor first and if he can't help you then come to us or come to us and we are going to recite quran on you nothing else, if you're not possesed nothing is going to happen and you can go to a doctor. The fact of the matter is that Quran has affect on people who are really possessed, I have experienced people screaming myself while they were being read upon.

Space_Jockey said:

Put yourself in the shoes of such people, if some 'religious exorcist' guy comes in and offers to cure your 'possessed' family member, (practically offers to do same thing as a psychiatrist, for much less money, he also explains it to you in words you can understand), who would you choose if you have no knowledge of mental illnesses?

The choice is easy, if i'm physically ill i'll go straight to a doctor. If i'm mentally ill I can choose between one who reads quran on me and the doctor. The one who reads quran is much safer, he's not going to drug me and if i am really possessed his recitation will have affect, if not i will just accept i'm mentally ill and live a life druging myself with medicine to keep away the mental problems.

Space_Jockey said:

You know what, it doesn't have to be a Quran at all, all exorcisms I've seen involves some kind of 'call and response' kind of thing, shouting, screaming, hell,  he could be preaching verses from the bible or use the name of jesus, it doesn't seem to make any difference, it depends on whatever faith the exorcist belongs to.

I know that non-muslims practice exorcism but you're just bringing proof against yourself now and that is that they do have affect although we muslims don't agree with their method like calling on prophets etc. Because it goes against our monotheistic belief of not calling only on Allaah, the creator of everything and of course we say Quran has a stronger affect on them and that's why some non muslims come to muslim exorcists to help them. Although people should be carefull because some who claim to do exorcism in reality practice magic like calling on the devil, or just want your money etc.. Real exorcism is only done by reading quran and calling on Allaah alone.

Space_Jockey said:

Anyway, are these people cured? Do we see them again? The rest of their lives aren't well documented, are they?  

You don't see them, because you have no connection to them but people who do know them say they'r cured and the person himself and the exorcist. I know of some who still aren't cured and some who are.

Space_Jockey said:

I go through one of the videos on the site, and one says "Doctors couldn't figure out what was wrong, power of Islam (or whatever) cured it", that could be hogwash, as not even you would believe everything that's said there. Where exactly did they seek medical help but failed?

You can doubt it if you want, but he's not here to give you personal information on his patients, what kind of a doctor does that? If you want to know more go to an muslim exorcist and talk to him and ask if you can watch while he's doing his recitation. I hope he lets you, if i would ever start exorcism myself i would let everyone watch if the patient agrees.

Abu Huraira reported that a person said: Allah's Messenger, who amongst the people is most deserving of my good treatment? He said: Your mother, again your mother, again your mother, then your father, then your nearest relatives according to the order (of nearness). - Hadith - Sahih Muslim

#30    LogicalThinker

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 02:36 PM

View Postmuslimexorcism, on 26 December 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

If you watch the first video, he clearly says that he's differentiating between what is found in islamic sources and his own experience. What he quotes from islamic sources is based on pure data and what he adds from himself is from experience as an exorcist.
"I'm curious then how do you explain him and those who are possessed with the experiences they have? Just liars? Mental illnesses? Then how do you explain them feeling pain, getting cured by reading the Qur'an on them? How come Qur'an has affect on people who claim to be possesed. I'm not saying this to prove my religion (as i said i have my own reasons for believing) but it's something to think about."

I can explain, it's utter rubbish because feeling pain isn't apparent as say losing a limb or being diagnosed with a terrible illness.  And you have answered your own question.."How come Qur'an has affect on people who claim to be possesed."  No evidence, no proof!  Easy! :yes:

I have really enjoyed reading through the discussions on this forum and that is why I joined but I'm afraid I could only last through two minutes of the first video as I suddenly realised that I did not want to be preached to about things that I find quite offensive!  The suppossedly possessed victims, and they are victims, should be in a hospital receiving the proper care and treatment whilst the idiots in these videos should be put in a jail as this is disgusting abuse of vulnerable ill people to gain some credability to their ways and beliefs.  I apologise if you find this reply disrespectfull as it is not my style and I have an open mind but as long as it comes under logical and reasonable thinking, but I would like a live in a world were people and animals receive the proper care they deserve and the subject of 'excorisims' is the torment and abuse of extremely sick people! :td:






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