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Socialism in the Heart of Capitalist US


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#1    Leonardo

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:12 AM

Quote

Chris Agee is loading boxes of food and drink products on to a conveyor belt down in the basement of a grocery store in Brooklyn, New York.

One floor above him, shoppers push trolleys up and down the aisles, picking up their weekly groceries.

But this isn't Chris's full-time job. In fact he's not getting paid a wage at all. Chris actually teaches political science at City University of New York.

He is one of the 16,000 members of the Park Slope Food Co-op, who volunteers at the store.

The co-operative is one of the few in the US that still has a member labour requirement - members have to work there if they want to shop there.

source

Awaiting comments on the evils of socialism, or how it can only work on such a small scale, etc, etc...

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"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

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#2    Yes_Man

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:21 AM

Your title is seriously mis leading, all i found is that everyone is happy there, sure they are not being paid but its better than huge stores where you wait and need to look most of the time.


#3    Leonardo

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:23 AM

View PostThe New Richard Nixon, on 28 December 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

Your title is seriously mis leading, all i found is that everyone is happy there, sure they are not being paid but its better than huge stores where you wait and need to look most of the time.

If you found my OP misleading I would encourage you to report it.

What about it [the subject of the article] is not an example of socialism, I ask?

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#4    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:29 AM

How is that bad?
Instead of paying for goods with cash, they're doing so via labour.


#5    Yes_Man

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:33 AM

View PostLeonardo, on 28 December 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

If you found my OP misleading I would encourage you to report it.

What about it [the subject of the article] is not an example of socialism, I ask?
all of it, why do you think this is socialism?


#6    Leonardo

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:36 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 28 December 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

How is that bad?
Instead of paying for goods with cash, they're doing so via labour.

I never said the example in the article was bad, SWoH.

But look through many of the threads here and you will find a general antipathy for socialism among the American public based, I would suggest, purely on a false understanding of what socialism is; indoctrination through corporate media pushing the "socialism is bad" message; and a historic opposition to 'socialist' nations in the endeavour to be "top dog".

However, as the article I linked to suggests, socialism can bring real, material, benefits as well as community benefits.

Edited by Leonardo, 28 December 2013 - 10:52 AM.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#7    Leonardo

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:40 AM

View PostThe New Richard Nixon, on 28 December 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

all of it, why do you think this is socialism?

Well, it is a co-operative venture undertaken to manage the local economy of the food-store; it is co-operative 'ownership' of production; and access to the production is according to contribution.

What makes you think it does not describe a socialist environment? Please be more specific than "all of it".

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#8    Admiral Rhubarb

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:49 AM

Just another Obamaist Trojan horse to bring America under the heel of Russia, again. Putin will be laughing his socks off behind that sinister exterior of his.

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#9    Leonardo

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:52 AM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 28 December 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

Just another Obamaist Trojan horse to bring America under the heel of Russia, again. Putin will be laughing his socks off behind that sinister exterior of his.

:lol:

Well done, Colonel. Well done, I say! :tsu:

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#10    lightly

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:56 AM

Looks like a great idea.  Looks like it's working fine for them.  I'm assuming there is no profit incentive in the operations of the store? Just lower prices for the members?  What's not to like?

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#11    Babe Ruth

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 02:28 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 28 December 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

source

Awaiting comments on the evils of socialism, or how it can only work on such a small scale, etc, etc...

Obviously it depends upon how we define socialism.

This story from Brooklyn is about volunteer work, IMO, not socialism.

It seems to me that socialism would somehow involve the use of funds in the public treasury, NOT the activities of volunteer workers.


#12    questionmark

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 03:02 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 28 December 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

Obviously it depends upon how we define socialism.

This story from Brooklyn is about volunteer work, IMO, not socialism.

It seems to me that socialism would somehow involve the use of funds in the public treasury, NOT the activities of volunteer workers.

Where we have the usual problem with the definition, socialism is the collective egalitarian effort (where with most volunteering the egalitarian part does not exist) for the benefit of all. That store would sure fall under that.

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#13    Gromdor

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:02 PM

We have lots of examples of socialism here in the United States.  Families operate via socialism with each member contributing what they can and taking what they need.  Charities as well.
I think that the problem is Americans have taken term "socialism" and have corrupted its definition to include all their ills and fears.  Countless times I am heard someone say or post, "Socialist, Fascist, Liberal!".  When in reality socialism and fascism are on opposite spectrums.


#14    Leonardo

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:13 PM

View PostGromdor, on 28 December 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

We have lots of examples of socialism here in the United States.  Families operate via socialism with each member contributing what they can and taking what they need.  Charities as well.

Absolutely, I don't dispute that. And many/most of the examples of socialism are beneficial to those involved.

Quote

I think that the problem is Americans have taken term "socialism" and have corrupted its definition to include all their ills and fears.  Countless times I am heard someone say or post, "Socialist, Fascist, Liberal!".  When in reality socialism and fascism are on opposite spectrums.

Very true, and one of the reasons I started this thread. "Socialism" and "Totalitarianism" seem to be synonyms in the American vocabulary, but it's a false association.

For sure, socialism isn't the be-all/end-all solution to a better society - but it is part of it and America needs to learn to embrace socialism amongst the rest of what it embraces in order to improve the quality of social life in the nation.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#15    dr no

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:25 PM

I think Americans are generally clueless about socialism judging by discussions I've had whilst there and on the net.I hear people calling Obama a marxist pig which is laughable,he isn't even particularly left wing.Its a hangover from all the hysterical anti communist propaganda they were fed in the cold war IMHO





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