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Call for total smacking ban on children

smacking ban parents children maggie atkinson childrens commissioner

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#1    Still Waters

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:33 AM

Pets have more legal protection than children, whose parents should be banned from smacking them, according to the Children's Commissioner for England.

Maggie Atkinson said it was her personal view that the law gives pets and adults more rights to be protected from violence than children, and she would like to see a total ban, with parents facing criminal action for corporal punishment.

http://www.theguardi...arents-smacking

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#2    Leonardo

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:39 AM

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Pets have more legal protection than children, whose parents should be banned from smacking them, according to the Children's Commissioner for England.

Absolutely untrue, and so a poor basis from which to argue. Ms Atkinson should focus on trying to do the best job she can, rather than trying to justify it by uttering useless sound-bites.

Or perhaps that is the only purpose of her job, in which case why are we - the tax-payer - paying for it?

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#3    Mr.United_Nations

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 12:14 PM

This didnt go down to well when the last time a call for smacking to be banned, she needs to make a study of actual beatings and not pat on the head. its the same with Rape, when is it rape?


#4    stevewinn

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 12:19 PM

This story pops up now and then, Children have the same protection as everyone else. if a child is abused in any way the perpetrators will face court / jail. its wrong to say pets have more protection because its simply not true. the law is clear and i think the vast majority of people parents and non parents know the line between a smack and actual violent abuse. if we done a poll on here im sure most people on here were smacked at some point by a parent.

Edited by stevewinn, 28 December 2013 - 12:20 PM.

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#5    jules99

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 12:39 PM

In Australia IIRC is 3 smacks below the shoulder and above the knees only
Its a fact of life that abberant behaviour requires correction ..and the best stimulus is pain. A smack on the behind will suffice. Unfortunately Its  retarded parents torturing  kids and burning them with cigarettes that require these laws to be written....


#6    Neognosis

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 02:49 PM

Both pets AND children sometimes need a smack now and then.


#7    thyra

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:14 PM

I dont understand how a parent can ever hit a child.

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#8    Leonardo

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:20 PM

View Postthyra, on 28 December 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

I dont understand how a parent can ever hit a child.

The majority of children will not respond effectively to 'adult' discipline such as verbally encouraging thoughtfulness about wrongful behaviour. This is because the majority of children are still developing as persons and do not have the psychological tools (developed morality or sense of ethics, altruism, etc) to appreciate why a certain behaviour is wrong simply by contemplating it.

Mild physical discipline fills the gap until the child has exhibited the ability to perform this self-analysis.

Some modern methods, such as withholding material rewards, also do not appropriately fill this gap but instead teach the child merely to appreciate materialism.

Edited by Leonardo, 28 December 2013 - 04:21 PM.

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"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

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#9    thyra

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:31 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 28 December 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

The majority of children will not respond effectively to 'adult' discipline such as verbally encouraging thoughtfulness about wrongful behaviour. This is because the majority of children are still developing as persons and do not have the psychological tools (developed morality or sense of ethics, altruism, etc) to appreciate why a certain behaviour is wrong simply by contemplating it.

Mild physical discipline fills the gap until the child has exhibited the ability to perform this self-analysis.

Some modern methods, such as withholding material rewards, also do not appropriately fill this gap but instead teach the child merely to appreciate materialism.

The kid would just hide from you what he/she will do but still do it.Hitting kids is likely to cause traumatic experiences instead of decreasing the unwanted behaviour. I really cant understand emotioanlly as well how a parent can ever do it. just horrific.

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#10    Ealdwita

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:33 PM

The recent trend towards liberal parenting must take at least part of the blame for today's burgoining underclass of feral youth!

I notice the OP link appears in 'The Guardian' ....no surprise there then.

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#11    Leonardo

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:37 PM

View Postthyra, on 28 December 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

The kid would just hide from you what he/she will do but still do it.Hitting kids is likely to cause traumatic experiences instead of decreasing the unwanted behaviour. I really cant understand emotioanlly as well how a parent can ever do it. just horrific.

The only emotion a parent should ever have when disciplining their child is love. You are assuming a parent should discipline their child when angry? No, the responsible parent should always wait until they calm down before deciding on how to discipline for bad behaviour.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#12    thyra

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:46 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 28 December 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

The only emotion a parent should ever have when disciplining their child is love. You are assuming a parent should discipline their child when angry? No, the responsible parent should always wait until they calm down before deciding on how to discipline for bad behaviour.

There are other ways to teach your child out of love instead of hitting, especially when it is obvious that hitting a child would damage them. Rewarding is not always about material benefits either.

http://www.apa.org/m...4/spanking.aspx

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#13    Leonardo

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:52 PM

View Postthyra, on 28 December 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

There are other ways to teach your child out of love instead of hitting, especially when it is obvious that hitting a child would damage them. Rewarding is not always about material benefits either.

http://www.apa.org/m...4/spanking.aspx

Just how does a couple of paddles on the bottom "damage" a child?

The studies don't actually show damage from physical discipline. They show that many parents discipline their children while they [the parents] are angry - and this is what causes "psychological issues", as well as that it means those parents may overdo the discipline because they are angry.

Edited by Leonardo, 28 December 2013 - 04:53 PM.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.

#14    thyra

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 04:57 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 28 December 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Just how does a couple of paddles on the bottom "damage" a child?

The studies don't actually show damage from physical discipline. They show that many parents discipline their children while they [the parents] are angry - and this is what causes "psychological issues", as well as that it means those parents may overdo the discipline because they are angry.

it does tell that? LOL. Thanks for giving me yet another opportunity to love my parents and parents in my larger family more. bye bye.

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#15    Leonardo

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 05:07 PM

View Postthyra, on 28 December 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

it does tell that? LOL. Thanks for giving me yet another opportunity to love my parents and parents in my larger family more. bye bye.

Quote

As in many areas of science, some researchers disagree about the validity of the studies on physical punishment. Robert Larzelere, PhD, an Oklahoma State University professor who studies parental discipline, was a member of the APA task force who issued his own minority report because he disagreed with the scientific basis of the task force recommendations. While he agrees that parents should reduce their use of physical punishment, he says most of the cited studies are correlational and don’t show a causal link between physical punishment and long-term negative effects for children.

“The studies do not discriminate well between non-abusive and overly severe types of corporal punishment,” Larzelere says. “You get worse outcomes from corporal punishment than from alternative disciplinary techniques only when it is used more severely or as the primary discipline tactic.”

From the very same article you linked to. This agrees with my assessment that 'damage' is caused by the parents disciplining while angry (and overdoing it), not by the fact of the disciplining being physical.

In the book of life, the answers aren't in the back. - Charlie Brown

"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.




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