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China ?

china world war war usa

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Poll: Chance of China making first strike in any way? (24 member(s) have cast votes)

Might China make first strike on ( Any for now ) country?

  1. Yes (4 votes [16.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  2. No (13 votes [54.17%])

    Percentage of vote: 54.17%

  3. 50~50 (5 votes [20.83%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.83%

  4. I will start digging?! (2 votes [8.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.33%

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#31    stevewinn

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 05:48 PM

View PostColonel Rhuairidh, on 31 December 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

So does that mean that David "Cameron"'s mega-carrier project means that he has ambitions for global domination?

in a word No, way back in 1997 under the labour government under a major strategic defence review was when these two carriers were first proposed. it wasn't until 2007 after much delay by the government when the decision was made to proceed with the carrier program. when in 2010 under a defence review the decision was made to decommission fixed wing aircraft on HMS Illustrious leaving us without a true carrier and strike capability until 2020 - the error of this judgment by the politicians was laid bare for all to see when the Libya conflict kicked off. we had to use land bases in allied countries this meant we had to fly spares and munitions from the UK to these operating bases ( were you have to pay leasing fees and transiting airspace fees' having a supply line stretching all the way back home. embarrassing, but because of our NATO and UN commitments we continued. this resulted in us delivering less than half of what the USA did, but we were paying a higher price than anyone else all this extra cost was due to us not having carriers. using land bases and a massive supply line.

So its clear, if you want to protect British interests and future prosperity around the globe you need to be able to project force this is the key to remaining a great power. our new carriers cost 3billion each included in that cost is research and development. they'll cost £70 million a year to put to sea. in 2015 another defence review will be taken to see if its viable to put both to sea at the same time or one might be mothballed but still giving us a 365 day a year capability, one at sea while the other is in refit or readiness if the need arises. - personally, i'd like to see the two of them put to sea. £140 million is a drop in the ocean. we've just spent vast amounts of money on two land wars with little in return in prosperity, national interest or standing in the world, anyway we are now going to see a shift in real terms back to the Navy because if the truth is known the government as neglected the Navy so much so we have manning problems and ships put to sea with shortages, we have a £1billion destroyer being deployed on anti piracy. when such a major ship should not be doing this type of work. we cannot fulfill our commitments around the world if we reduce the Navy in the coming 2015 defence review. the Royal Navy right now and throughout 2014 is in charge of NATO's maritime assets. under our command is 350 ships and 80,000 personnel.

What was contributed and what the cost - compare the assets deployed and the money spent. especially between the UK and France. very similar until you look at the price.

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Edited by stevewinn, 31 December 2013 - 05:51 PM.

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#32    spud the mackem

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 09:40 PM

In Birmingham England the Indians have a Curry take-away shop on every street corner, to stop Chinese Curry shop domination,so we have nothing to fear.

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#33    andy4

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 09:55 AM

I wonder how we'll all feel when china sends a new carrier group heading towards the USA. Then we will all find out why they don't like it when we do it to them.

I don't think they will go to war, but I do believe they want us out of their hair. They don't want us messing around near japan, because they feel as if it's just between them and japan, and we should go away. We probably should as it would save us a lot of money, and in the future, lives. Going to war with china would be near impossible to us if we would butt out, but we are bound in Asia to other countries. I mean, they can't bring 50,000,000 troops over in boats.

And so they chose to get revenge through the back door, economically.

I personally think they will go to war, eventually. But the USA will have to somehow no longer be involved, and until then, we are safe.

Edited by andy4, 01 January 2014 - 10:00 AM.

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#34    Frank Merton

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 10:20 AM

Don't be silly; if China does anything whatsoever in any way hostile to the Japanese, the Americans will instantly and totally be in it up to their armpits.


#35    third_eye

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 11:05 AM

I wouldn't be so sure Frank ... if the Politburo throws something immensely tempting on the table ... along with the Soviets giving a little for a little take ... US might just be sitting on the hands for a while ... till popular opinion and media pressure gathers enough of a fecal storm to make the Congress drag the feet a little more ...quicker

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#36    Peter B

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 12:04 PM

View Postspud the mackem, on 30 December 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

Has China ever started a conflict ?.They are the guys who sit behind the scenes and supply the equipment.They were dragged into the Korean War because Nth Korea was losing and had to have back up,but they (the Chinese) didn't start it.
Yes. The Sino-Indian war of 1962, skirmishes with Soviet forces in 1968 and the Sino-Vietnamese war of 1979, followed by another decade of skirmishes with the Vietnamese.


#37    third_eye

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 12:25 PM

View PostPeter B, on 01 January 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

Yes. The Sino-Indian war of 1962, skirmishes with Soviet forces in 1968 and the Sino-Vietnamese war of 1979, followed by another decade of skirmishes with the Vietnamese.

Isn't this a case of who who want to believe ?

Six of one and half dozen of another seems to me ...

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Reason China don't start conflicts is because there's nothing in it for them in fact it just makes matter complicated for practical trade/merchant leaning interests ... everything the world wants has always been centered on the middle kingdom since the trade routes of the Silk Road ... and very little that China wants is monopolized by any singular market player ... diplomacy was always the first initiated mode of solutions in terms of practicality ...

But in coveting what China provides the world ... the World has always been trying all sort of tactics to slice a piece of China for themselves ... The Mongols and Manchus succeeded because it was the lesser of two evils for the merchants tired of conflicts when compared with the Despotic Emperor and corrupt court aristocrats of the day ... as long as its business as usual ...

The Spice route along South China Sea was innocently free from conflicts and trade was top for the longest time ... till the first 'Discoverers' of the WOrld came along that is .... The Portuguese ~ SPanish ~ Dutch ~ Britannia ~ things just went down hill for the East from then on ... still is to many ... though some things did change for the better, it took a drastic change of attitude to change the fortunes of all involved ... though some do believe the fortunes of many Western Estates is from looting the 'East' for hundreds of years under the guise of a bringing a better standard of 'life' ~ to save 'souls'


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#38    Frank Merton

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Posted 01 January 2014 - 03:06 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 01 January 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:

I wouldn't be so sure Frank ... if the Politburo throws something immensely tempting on the table ... along with the Soviets giving a little for a little take ... US might just be sitting on the hands for a while ... till popular opinion and media pressure gathers enough of a fecal storm to make the Congress drag the feet a little more ...quicker

:lol:
I can't imagine anything they might offer that would wean the States from Japan.  There are three countries in the world the States sees as essential to American vital interests, Japan, Canada and Britain.


#39    third_eye

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 04:31 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 01 January 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

I can't imagine anything they might offer that would wean the States from Japan.  There are three countries in the world the States sees as essential to American vital interests, Japan, Canada and Britain.

Maybe that's why some in Canada is muttering Viva Le France, some in BRitain is screamin' ruddy b******s and some in Japan is politely whispering NO more Yanks ?

:lol:

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#40    Frank Merton

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 05:56 AM

I think the American treatment of its three closest allies has been fairly smart and has raised the sorts of protest you mention only in a minority of people, much the same types as behave that way in the States itself.


#41    third_eye

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 06:21 AM

Well you know how politcos scratches each others back Frank ... same old same new ...

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#42    Frank Merton

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 06:25 AM

I sometimes wonder what might happen if Quebec got serious about separating itself from Canada.  It's hard to see how the US could tolerate that, but what could they do?


#43    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 08:02 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 02 January 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

I think the American treatment of its three closest allies has been fairly smart and has raised the sorts of protest you mention only in a minority of people, much the same types as behave that way in the States itself.
Well, since Tony Blair's adventures doing whatever America wants, Mr. David Cameron couldn't even get enough of his loyal party apparatchiks to support following America in another military adventure, as you may remember, so I'm rather afraid that the combined forces of Bush and Blair have rather tested that loyalty beyond breaking point.

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#44    Yes_Man

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 09:17 AM

The real question is, how will China's neighbors will respond?


#45    Frank Merton

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Posted 02 January 2014 - 09:31 AM

View PostColonel Rhubarb, on 02 January 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

Well, since Tony Blair's adventures doing whatever America wants, Mr. David Cameron couldn't even get enough of his loyal party apparatchiks to support following America in another military adventure, as you may remember, so I'm rather afraid that the combined forces of Bush and Blair have rather tested that loyalty beyond breaking point.
Short term and trivial divisions.  The States would defend Britain if there were real difficulties, and probably the other way round.  Geography and culture and history.






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