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theory about humans


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#1    telepathy

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 04:07 PM

if humans consist of body and spirit

the real human is the spirit

the body is just a machine that the spirit drive just like human drive a car

then what if not all human bodies are controlled by human spirits but by spirits from other kind

i am not talking here about humans been possessed no i am talking about an empty body with a spirit other than human where there is no human spirit at all inside this body

in this case the human body is just a common thing between human spirits and other spirits

now what if all what we are living is a lie

i mean the other spirits are taking control of every thing in our life and they tell us how to think and what to believe

and thats why we suffer because we live a life against our nature

what if we are not suppose to be inside this "human" bodies but as i said we are inside of it as a common interface between us and the other spirits

maybe thats why we can't remember any thing about our past lifes before we become "humans" because we are slaves captured by this other beings they put us in t his bodies and told us the stories we know today about where we come from and what will happen next

because we can free ourselves if we know what we can do

remember jesus said you can do what he did and more if you believe

what do you think?

Edited by telepathy, 06 January 2014 - 04:15 PM.


#2    thyra

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 04:32 PM

You mean like ascended masters sort of things? if it is possible some spirits can go down the certain levels of existence only because that part of existence is part of their own spirit and you wouldnt tell the difference as the lower form if you are visited or not.(but i am not sure in some cases perhaps there can be some technical issues relating brain synchronicity) They also cant have any intention of hurting you because your spirit is their spirit. Lower layers of existence mean vacation for higher level dwellers, i guess :) like swiming and resting in sea of anas.

Edited by thyra, 06 January 2014 - 04:51 PM.

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#3    Ever Learning

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Posted 06 January 2014 - 05:11 PM

with the believe and being able to do the things that jesus did, i dont think he meant if you can believe it, you can do anything. if you have faith as a christian you can do anything, faith even as small as a mustard seed. if your intentions are to further the kingdom of god and glorify jesus then you could do any thing, if your intentions are to glorify your self then you dont have faith in jesus.

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#4    John from Lowell

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 01:41 PM

Hi,

There are those that teach that the human is an integration of Mind(universal awareness), Body(physical form), and Spirit(energetic essence). That we refine our overall Self through a blending of our higher aspects of self with those that express in this lower physical form.

I would like to think we evolve with a purpose in mind.

John

Edited by John from Lowell, 07 January 2014 - 01:42 PM.

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#5    Frank Merton

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 01:51 PM

There is a widely held idea that when we die our life spirit goes into the womb of a woman and becomes a parasite on the embryo, the combination making a new human being.  We call this reincarnation although rebirth is more accurate.

This implies a sort-of dual existence of physical body and life spirit or mind, with all the philosophical problems the same implication for the West in its body/soul duality.  There is however a difference in the way the life spirit is seen as opposed to the way the soul is seen.  The soul is a spiritual entity capable of living on its own in the spirit worlds, a life spirit is a process, not a thing, and is what generates sentience and intelligence out of brain activity.


#6    shadowsot

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 02:04 PM

Quote

what do you think?

If that was the case, things like tumors and imbalances of brain chemistry wouldn't have such an effect.
Yet the brain's hemispheres can be separated so that each hemisphere acts independently of the other.
It seems much more likely that the brain and mind are a singular thing and not separate.

It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
-Terry Pratchett

#7    Frank Merton

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 02:14 PM

View PostShadowSot, on 07 January 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

If that was the case, things like tumors and imbalances of brain chemistry wouldn't have such an effect.
Yet the brain's hemispheres can be separated so that each hemisphere acts independently of the other.
It seems much more likely that the brain and mind are a singular thing and not separate.
It's hard to imagine sentience in electrochemical processes.  I suppose it is not impossible but no one has yet proposed a mechanism.  It seems to me all that we can really say is that mind depends on brain, but not necessarily that mind is brain.

By the way, I think you overstate the brain half separation effects a little.  They appear to have the ability to act on their own when lacking communication with the other half, but only with information it happens to have.  A coordinated action requires both halves.


#8    shadowsot

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 02:25 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 07 January 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

It's hard to imagine sentience in electrochemical processes.  I suppose it is not impossible but no one has yet proposed a mechanism.  It seems to me all that we can really say is that mind depends on brain, but not necessarily that mind is brain.
I'd question if we really have sentience, certainly neuroscience tends to harm our ideas of free will and self determination.

Quote

By the way, I think you overstate the brain half separation effects a little.  They appear to have the ability to act on their own when lacking communication with the other half, but only with information it happens to have.  A coordinated action requires both halves.
Well, yes. Each brain is working independently of each other. And yes, a coordinated action requires both halves, but both halves otherwise operate independently of each other.

If duality was true, we'd expect that damage to the brain would little to affect a personality and consciousness. But we see it does, very heavily. It is possible to damage or be born without the ability to feel empathize or feel emotions for example.

It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
-Terry Pratchett

#9    White Crane Feather

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 03:14 PM

View PostShadowSot, on 07 January 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:


If that was the case, things like tumors and imbalances of brain chemistry wouldn't have such an effect.
Yet the brain's hemispheres can be separated so that each hemisphere acts independently of the other.
It seems much more likely that the brain and mind are a singular thing and not separate.
Actually things like tumers or other alterations woukd indeed affect the mind as the brain is viewed as a receiver. Much like a radio or television. Your examples would be true if the brain produced consciousness or received it. Then throw in a large mix of other circumstances and the brain as a producer of consciousness with a physicalist interpretation starts to seem less likely.

Edited by White Crane Feather, 07 January 2014 - 03:15 PM.

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Bruce Lee-

#10    White Crane Feather

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 03:20 PM

View PostShadowSot, on 07 January 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:


I'd question if we really have sentience, certainly neuroscience tends to harm our ideas of free will and self determination.

But we see it does, very heavily. It is possible to damage or be born without the ability to feel empathize or feel emotions for example.
How so?

Who's said mind has anything to do with emotion. By your own example consciousness is not dependent in the ability to have emotions or empathy. These are clearly ego driven concepts.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#11    shadowsot

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 03:34 PM

View PostWhite Crane Feather, on 07 January 2014 - 03:20 PM, said:


How so?

Who's said mind has anything to do with emotion. By your own example consciousness is not dependent in the ability to have emotions or empathy. These are clearly ego driven concepts.
Lacking emotions people are unable to make decisions, and effectively have no personality.

With the evidence we have, a much simpler and parsimonious explanation is that consciousness resides in the brain, which while not fully understood is understood well enough to have good explanations for the little claimed phenomena that exists counter to it.

It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
-Terry Pratchett

#12    Frank Merton

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 03:51 PM

With the evidence that mind depends largely on brain is not enough in my mind for you to make such a sweeping conclusion.  Concepts like free will and sentience and intelligence cannot be dismissed as illusions unless one has some theory of the source and cause of the illusion.  The "simple" explanation to my mind is to accept them at face value and admit that mind is not understood and that no matter how well we understand brain we have no concept how to even approach the issue.


#13    shadowsot

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 03:54 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 07 January 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

With the evidence that mind depends largely on brain is not enough in my mind for you to make such a sweeping conclusion.  Concepts like free will and sentience and intelligence cannot be dismissed as illusions unless one has some theory of the source and cause of the illusion.  The "simple" explanation to my mind is to accept them at face value and admit that mind is not understood and that no matter how well we understand brain we have no concept how to even approach the issue.
Actually the illusion of free will from what I understand has been written about extensively.
As for the claims of brain and mind, the extra ordinary claim is that minds reside outside the brain, and so far the evidence for this claim has been less than extraordinary, while regular studies have produced results that don't require the assumption of a spirit in order to make sense.


It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
-Terry Pratchett

#14    Frank Merton

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 04:04 PM

View PostShadowSot, on 07 January 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

Actually the illusion of free will from what I understand has been written about extensively.
As for the claims of brain and mind, the extra ordinary claim is that minds reside outside the brain, and so far the evidence for this claim has been less than extraordinary, while regular studies have produced results that don't require the assumption of a spirit in order to make sense.
No I tend to think mind is a process of brain comparable to sound being a process of air molecules.  To be sure free will has been written about extensively -- all of this has -- but none of it is accepted science or philosophy.  It is quite in the air.


#15    shadowsot

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 04:07 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 07 January 2014 - 04:04 PM, said:

No I tend to think mind is a process of brain comparable to sound being a process of air molecules.  To be sure free will has been written about extensively -- all of this has -- but none of it is accepted science or philosophy.  It is quite in the air.
The idea of libertarian free will, that exists apart from your situation, your culture, your mental abilities, has been debunked.
There are some restricted ideas of free will still conceivable, bu even hose have problems.

I don't get your analogy.

It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
-Terry Pratchett




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