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Amsterdam alcoholics paid in beer

alcoholics amsterdam litter beer

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#1    Still Waters

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:51 PM

Alcoholics are being paid in beer to clean the streets of Amsterdam as part of a project partly funded by the Dutch government - the organisers think other countries should abandon "old-fashioned political correctness" and adopt the same approach.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-25548061

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-25618339

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#2    Eldorado

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 10:57 PM

How about some smack for the addicts if they clean all the bird crap from the city's tall buildings?  Will end in tears but hey, the city sure will look nicer.


#3    _Only

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 11:00 PM

It's not about political correctness, really. It's about giving someone the thing that's the cause of their problems and what's killing them, just because it benefits a tidy street.

Pretty sick.

This point of view doesn't go over well with all of you joyous social drinkers, but for an addict like me, it really bothers me. It's one thing to artificially induce a good chemical feeling with others, not that I like that either. But it's a different ball game in giving someone something thats ruining every aspect of their life.

Wish someone would have given me some crank years ago to get me to clean their street. Same thing, right? Oh, right, that's not "legal".

Edited by _Only, 07 January 2014 - 11:01 PM.

"I think there may be "ghost phenomenon" that may be still not fully understood or dismissed, but that doesn't make it spirits of the dead, anymore than "UFO" means "spaceship" or even "UFO" or "spaceship" is directly related to aliens, or anything else. There is way too much assumption and a baseless reliance on anecdotal lore, like when people assert this or that about the spirit world or the astral plane or Ouija board demons, or religion. I say 'says WHO?'" - Paranormalcy

#4    thyra

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 11:08 PM

I think it is very good idea if they are also giving some money because these people choose to drink anyway.Knowing that they wont ever spend money on it again and will have plenty of beer at their disposal whenever they want, may even cause them to drink less. because in such habits there is sometimes a hidden guilt and a need to torture yourself. You do some of that self torture by trying to find the money to spend on it. when that pressure is lifted off without any effort they may find ease in leaving it completely and without even noticing that they are doing it. They will also have to stay sober to do their jobs during quite a lot of hours. A good start.

Edited by thyra, 07 January 2014 - 11:12 PM.

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#5    OverSword

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 11:49 PM

_only is %100 correct.  This is wrong.

A few years ago I bought as a prop for a group halloween costume (white trash wedding party) a six pack of malt liquor.  We weren't going to drink it so while walking home I gave it to a homeless alcoholic I see around alot.  When I offered it to him he started to shake really bad and took it.  After the fact I thought to myself I may have just killed that man.  I really felt bad and was relieved when I saw him again.


#6    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 11:55 PM

Hold on. These alcoholics are drinking anyway, that is why they are alcoholics. I am sure there are programs in the Netherlands to help these people off of alcohol, but obviously some have chosen not to attend and to drink instead.
Why not allow these people to help their society in their selfish desire to drink themselves stupid?
Edit. Unless someone else has a better idea of how homeless alcoholics can be utilized to help society even if they don't want to help themselves

Edited by Professor Buzzkill, 07 January 2014 - 11:57 PM.


#7    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 12:02 AM

View Post_Only, on 07 January 2014 - 11:00 PM, said:

It's not about political correctness, really. It's about giving someone the thing that's the cause of their problems and what's killing them, just because it benefits a tidy street.

Pretty sick.

This point of view doesn't go over well with all of you joyous social drinkers, but for an addict like me, it really bothers me. It's one thing to artificially induce a good chemical feeling with others, not that I like that either. But it's a different ball game in giving someone something thats ruining every aspect of their life.

Wish someone would have given me some crank years ago to get me to clean their street. Same thing, right? Oh, right, that's not "legal".
Would you say that methadone clinics are bad because they give drug addicts a drug that has destroyed their lives?


#8    Eldorado

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 12:49 AM

Am wondering how much it would cost an employer to insure his staff of alcoholics who are paid in alcohol to roam the streets?  Anyone any idea?


#9    PowerPC

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 01:26 AM

Forget about the political correctness??? That is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read. What they are really saying is do not worry about what the rest of the world thinks or do not let guilt bother you for doing something that is inhumane. Most of the people that would respond to an offer like this would be sick (alcoholics) that need medical attention and some kind of rehab. This is enabling people to continue to slowly kill themselves. Social drinkers would not trade this type of labor for a beer. I find the whole idea sick and you can tell it is wrong because the government is already telling people to ignore the political correctness and making excuses for why it is such a great idea. It is WRONG and I cannot believe an "enlightened" European nation would even consider such a de-humanizing and dangerous activity.


#10    _Only

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 02:11 AM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 08 January 2014 - 12:02 AM, said:

Would you say that methadone clinics are bad because they give drug addicts a drug that has destroyed their lives?

Yeah. It's not rehabilitation. Methadone clinics are bizarre.

"I think there may be "ghost phenomenon" that may be still not fully understood or dismissed, but that doesn't make it spirits of the dead, anymore than "UFO" means "spaceship" or even "UFO" or "spaceship" is directly related to aliens, or anything else. There is way too much assumption and a baseless reliance on anecdotal lore, like when people assert this or that about the spirit world or the astral plane or Ouija board demons, or religion. I say 'says WHO?'" - Paranormalcy

#11    _Only

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 02:19 AM

View PostProfessor Buzzkill, on 07 January 2014 - 11:55 PM, said:

Hold on. These alcoholics are drinking anyway, that is why they are alcoholics. I am sure there are programs in the Netherlands to help these people off of alcohol, but obviously some have chosen not to attend and to drink instead.
Why not allow these people to help their society in their selfish desire to drink themselves stupid?
Edit. Unless someone else has a better idea of how homeless alcoholics can be utilized to help society even if they don't want to help themselves

It's one thing to allow someone to deteriorate. It's completely different to help them. There are any number of different methods of payment you could imagine that aren't so harmful and lazily thought out. But that is not really the important issue. Loose candy bar wrappers in the Netherlands probably isn't that big of a problem for everyone's lives there. Homeless addicts are the real problems, which don't need to be turned into opportunities to correct menial issues that can be solved by a janitor paid minimum wage.

You don't feed someone their life problem because a. "they're gonna do it anyway" and b. "at least they're helping"

Unbelievable!

Edited by _Only, 08 January 2014 - 02:20 AM.

"I think there may be "ghost phenomenon" that may be still not fully understood or dismissed, but that doesn't make it spirits of the dead, anymore than "UFO" means "spaceship" or even "UFO" or "spaceship" is directly related to aliens, or anything else. There is way too much assumption and a baseless reliance on anecdotal lore, like when people assert this or that about the spirit world or the astral plane or Ouija board demons, or religion. I say 'says WHO?'" - Paranormalcy

#12    Purplos

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 04:01 PM

I wouldn't have such a problem if they were paid in food and were allowed a beer with lunch or something. Wouldn't there be homeless people who would pick up litter for a few hot meals each day and maybe access to a shower or something? Bags of litter could be like currency. I don't know.

This is just rather awful though.

Edited by Purplos, 08 January 2014 - 04:01 PM.

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#13    OverSword

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:33 PM

Don't you think that this must be violating some minimum wage law?  I bet they have a rather high minimum wage there.


#14    questionmark

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 08:35 PM

View PostOverSword, on 08 January 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

Don't you think that this must be violating some minimum wage law?  I bet they have a rather high minimum wage there.

It depends, in many countries in Europe it is perfectly legal for the government to employ people for a token amount if they are already on welfare.

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#15    Eldorado

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 11:41 PM

What happens to the street cleaners they already employ on a proper salary?  Redundancy followed by unemployment followed by alcoholism followed by being reinstated as a street cleaner?  (lol)






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