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Some of them (one of them)


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#1    markdohle

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 01:12 PM


Some of them (one of them)


It is easy to be harsh with others.  It is natural to seek to push others under the water, so that the surface can be reached and we can breathe.  Fear does that, causes defenses to go up, barbed-wire over the top so that no one can climb over.  Walls are high and thick and can be dangerous to scale.  So those who do seek to climb are also both in a defensive and aggressive mode.  I believe we all know what we need to do, but can’t much of the time.  Fear is like a very big lion gripping the neck of its prey and shaking it unto death or insensibility.  

I find it amazing how people from different religious backgrounds go at it with each other.  Talk about walls and barbed wire!  Perhaps hot tar poured over the top, or bayonets could also be added to the mix; the hell with it, lets add both.  

Everybody it seems is going to hell; for just about every religious group has members who with full authority, with all the proper quotes say it is so.  Some non-Catholics are absolutely sure that I am going to hell, am a Mary worshiper and that the Pope is the anti-Christ.  Some Catholics think the same thing about everyone who is not Catholic.  Then again Muslims, well again some of them have their Holy Book and well you guessed it, I am going to hell.  I will be dammed by Allah and Jesus Christ because I don’t agree with their faith, or with their infallible interpretation of scripture.  Then the atheist (yes some of them), along with agnostics (some of them) kind of damn anyone who is stupid enough, or weak enough, or irrational enough, to believe anything they deem foolish.  



Well then there is the political divide, which is no better, though sometimes fun to watch the giving back and forth with each other.  Both sides are of course demonic because both sides say they are…well again some of them.  Of course I can do a lot of ‘damming’ myself, it seem the natural thing to do.  

Listening, seeing, loving and respecting others can be one of the hardest things to do when face to face with someone who can’t return it.  Sometimes we are called to show compassion and empathy to those who can only lash our and insult. There have been times in my life, and I am sure there will be others, when I will be unable to return the above. In fact in the past when I was defensive, fearful, angry and insulting towards others and they only responded with kindness and compassion, are both wounding and healing memories for me..  When thinking about those people and how I responded, it is heart breaking, but my learning curve is low, so I am sure I will be an ignorant horses-ass at least one hundred more times in my life.

We all need mercy, compassion and empathy.  There are periods in most of our lives I believe, when we all can drown for awhile in anger, bitterness and rage….we can choke on it, yet it is those who see, listen and love us, who in the end bring us all back to sanity.  

God’s love is like that I believe.  Most of us wrestle with the big questions at least once in our lives, most I believe do it all of the time, and some know they are doing it.  Through all of this sputtering, hatred, rage and yes fear, God sees us, loves us, has empathy for us and waits patiently for our slow turning towards him.  I believe that not all paths are equal, but I do believe that all men and women are equal before God and to say things about them, their souls, or how God will deal with them, is in fact only worshiping the very worst aspect of our primitive, irrational and fear filled selves.

Lord save us all from your true believers, as well as your true non-believers..... give us loving, forgiving hearts and the knowledge of how little we actually do know.


#2    Jack Skellington

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 03:30 PM

Terrific post, wonderful insights and reflections.

I admit it myself. There was a time when I would tend to be less tolerant of certain perspectives other than my own "correct" version. It's been a long journey and along the way I'm trying to see more clearly, understand more deeply and judge less frequently or more accurately I suppose. I still get frustrated at times, particularly when those that preach or adhere to certain principles so quickly abandon them when it is convenient, self-promoting or self-righteous to do so. I still get frustrated by the many snipers who hide along the path seeking to destroy any seekers of truth that might pass by.

It's like the parable of the Good Samaritan where not only are there Catholics, or Muslims-- priests or imams who quickly cross to the other side rather than help, but there are also these snipers hidden behind rocks in the hills to pick off any unlikely Samaritan who against all odds is willing to try to help another. On this forum we have a few genuine seekers, and a myriad of such snipers. At times it's as if someone was to introduce a topic--- let's say "For the Love of Mother Theresa". You can almost be assured that someone will come along to disparage and discredit her. You could start a "Star Wars" thread here without someone insisting it's a ridiculous story or stopping in just to say that they don't much care for it.  I'd honestly prefer these experts on everything cross over to the other side and say or do nothing. Let's give the priests and religious leaders at least that much credit, at least they didn't beat and rob the rescuers.

Regarding politics-- just as there are good folks and bad in any group, so too can you find all kinds of people with strong opinions who outside of politics we would call fanatics or zealots, but inside politics we call them committed or loyal... These people have found their religion and their kingdoms are of this world. Again, I get annoyed at times, but try to treat it like football or any sort of spectator sport-- as a diversion or for entertainment purposes only. I've lost interest in it for the most part. We don't belong "here."

There is a verse of scripture that pertains however..... (Grin) which states:

The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.

-- can't get much clearer than that -- snort.

Anyways... Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate the gentleness and respect that accompanies your writing.



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#3    markdohle

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 11:20 PM

View PostJack Skellington, on 08 January 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

Terrific post, wonderful insights and reflections.

I admit it myself. There was a time when I would tend to be less tolerant of certain perspectives other than my own "correct" version. It's been a long journey and along the way I'm trying to see more clearly, understand more deeply and judge less frequently or more accurately I suppose. I still get frustrated at times, particularly when those that preach or adhere to certain principles so quickly abandon them when it is convenient, self-promoting or self-righteous to do so. I still get frustrated by the many snipers who hide along the path seeking to destroy any seekers of truth that might pass by.

It's like the parable of the Good Samaritan where not only are there Catholics, or Muslims-- priests or imams who quickly cross to the other side rather than help, but there are also these snipers hidden behind rocks in the hills to pick off any unlikely Samaritan who against all odds is willing to try to help another. On this forum we have a few genuine seekers, and a myriad of such snipers. At times it's as if someone was to introduce a topic--- let's say "For the Love of Mother Theresa". You can almost be assured that someone will come along to disparage and discredit her. You could start a "Star Wars" thread here without someone insisting it's a ridiculous story or stopping in just to say that they don't much care for it.  I'd honestly prefer these experts on everything cross over to the other side and say or do nothing. Let's give the priests and religious leaders at least that much credit, at least they didn't beat and rob the rescuers.

Regarding politics-- just as there are good folks and bad in any group, so too can you find all kinds of people with strong opinions who outside of politics we would call fanatics or zealots, but inside politics we call them committed or loyal... These people have found their religion and their kingdoms are of this world. Again, I get annoyed at times, but try to treat it like football or any sort of spectator sport-- as a diversion or for entertainment purposes only. I've lost interest in it for the most part. We don't belong "here."

There is a verse of scripture that pertains however..... (Grin) which states:

The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.

-- can't get much clearer than that -- snort.

Anyways... Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate the gentleness and respect that accompanies your writing.

LOL love the little joke at the end.  A very good post my friend, thank you for sharing.  Love how you used the parable of the Good Samaritan to make a point, well done.

peace
mark


#4    XenoFish

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Posted 08 January 2014 - 11:43 PM

Quote

I find it amazing how people from different religious backgrounds go at it with each other.  Talk about walls and barbed wire!  Perhaps hot tar poured over the top, or bayonets could also be added to the mix; the hell with it, lets add both.

I find it hilarious till someone gets into a fist fight.

I'm probably seen as the guy with the stick poking people. I'm a searcher. Agnostic to the core. I'd rather see examples than scripture. Anywho good post OP.

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#5    markdohle

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 12:03 AM

View PostXenoFish, on 08 January 2014 - 11:43 PM, said:

I find it hilarious till someone gets into a fist fight.

I'm probably seen as the guy with the stick poking people. I'm a searcher. Agnostic to the core. I'd rather see examples than scripture. Anywho good post OP.

Thanks.  I would think that if there is a real scientific stance to take on God it would be as an agnostic.  Though many are really atheist in their thinking.

Peace
Mark


#6    XenoFish

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 12:09 AM

I believe in something, not sure if you call it God or what. But I believe that there is something going on behind the curtain. I don't know what and I'm not going to create labels (not a big fan of religious dogma). Guess I'll learn when I'm dead. I have faith in something greater and I'll leave it at that.

My gummy bear died. My unicorn ran away. My imaginary friend was kidnapped. The voices in my head won't talk to me. Oh No! I'm going sane.

What you thought about yesterday created today, what you think about today will create tomorrow, be careful what you think.

#7    markdohle

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 02:22 PM

View PostXenoFish, on 09 January 2014 - 12:09 AM, said:

I believe in something, not sure if you call it God or what. But I believe that there is something going on behind the curtain. I don't know what and I'm not going to create labels (not a big fan of religious dogma). Guess I'll learn when I'm dead. I have faith in something greater and I'll leave it at that.

I like that.

Peace
Mark


#8    XenoFish

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 08:54 PM

Makes life simple. Keeps me from being bias.

My gummy bear died. My unicorn ran away. My imaginary friend was kidnapped. The voices in my head won't talk to me. Oh No! I'm going sane.

What you thought about yesterday created today, what you think about today will create tomorrow, be careful what you think.

#9    LostSouls7

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Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:26 PM

yeah don't get me started on the whole going to hell thing.

Like Homer Simpson said. I don't see why I have to go for an hour every sunday..
just to hear about how badly I'm going to hell! lol

Edited by LostSouls7, 09 January 2014 - 09:27 PM.

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#10    Copen

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 03:03 AM

View Postmarkdohle, on 08 January 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:


Some of them (one of them)


[size=4]It is easy to be harsh with others.  Some non-Catholics are absolutely sure that I am going to hell, am a Mary worshiper and that the Pope is the anti-Christ.  Some Catholics think the same thing about everyone who is not Catholic..  I will be dammed by Allah and Jesus Christ because I donít agree with their faith, or with their infallible interpretation of scripture.
[size=4]Listening, seeing, loving and respecting others can be one of the hardest things to do when face to face with someone who canít return it.  Sometimes we are called to show compassion and empathy to those who can only lash our and insult. There have been times in my life, and I am sure there will be others, when I will be unable to return the above.

Markdohle
My sincere apologies for being so harsh and rude to you recently. It was unkind. And I will try to not let that happen again. I usually call myself disagreeing in scriptural discussions but don't take it to a personal level.

In the Old Testament the Israelites, each one, "worshipped under his own tree" - in other words they stuck to their own beliefs and worshipped the way they wanted. But God punished Israel for it. His word is so exact. You may remember God struck a man dead for trying to save the ark when the ox stumbled because it was not being transported the way God said. His eternal salvation did not depend upon that disobedient work, but blessings or shortened life here on earth depend upon putting the Word ahead of false teachings from any denomination. I would never put a persons disobedience to the Word as an indication that that person was or was not saved. The bible makes it clear it is not by works but by election. Disobedience is a work.

In the 14th and 15th century, Christians did not have the Word. But the printing press made the bible available ---and if the Word said it they believed it. Resulting in a world wide revival that swept the globe. Christians can have this revival again if christians would get into small study groups in expectancy of God Himself to come down and show His endorsement with the same power they had at Pentecost. It didn't happen for them until they all came together in one place in agreement with God. There's a difference in coming together in one place with each other and coming together in agreement with the Word. And it took them 10 days to reach that point. I can't prove it because there is no scripture "twice" ---so this is just an opinion; but I would think that the virgin birth was a sticking point. But once the found scripture to support it, they had proof. No make believe fairy tale there.

If God who never stopped loving the Israelites did not let them get away with all their religious trinkets and idols, how are Christians going to escape? That is my burden for Christians. They are being told they are going to be raptured out unscathed. We are headed for Gods wrath. And only during tribulation will Christians forfeit their pet beliefs and seek agreement with the Word.

One last note: I am not always right in my interpretations. I have been corrected on this board. I am always glad to be shown in the scriptures where I am wrong because I am after the truth where ever it is. The truth eliminates contradictions. If there is a contradiction the truth has not been arrived at yet. So please do not take my disagreement personally.
God bless us all is my prayer

Edited by Copen, 12 January 2014 - 03:05 AM.





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