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Why I Can't Support CCW permits


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#1    OverSword

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 10:49 PM

from the article:

John Filippidis is a Concealed and Carry Weapons permit holder, which means he can carry his firearm on his person or in his car legally. He followed all applicable laws in the State of Florida to obtain his permit, and has been a lawful citizen since being “given the right” to retain a firearm when in public.
Recently he was driving through the State of Maryland on a family vacation when he was stopped, for no apparent reason, by a law enforcement officer who had trailed his car for at least ten minutes.
According to his family,

this is how the stop went down:


The officer was from the Transportation Authority Police. He asked Filippidis for his license and registration. Around ten minutes later, he returned and asked John to exit his vehicle.
“You own a gun,” the officer says. “Where is it?”
Filippidis told the officer his gun was at home in his safe.
Apparently the officer didn’t believe Filippidis, because he began questioning his wife, Kally, next:
“Your husband owns a gun. Where is it?”
First Kally said, “I don’t know.” Retelling it later to the Tampa Tribune, she said, “And that’s all I should have said.” Instead, attempting to be helpful, she added, “Maybe in the glove [box]. Maybe in the console. I’m scared of it. I don’t want to have anything to do with it. I might shoot right through my foot.”
That’s when things escalated. The officer confronted Filippidis:
“You’re a liar. You’re lying to me. Your family says you have it. Where is the gun? Tell me where it is, and we can resolve this right now.”
Of course a gun could not be produced, since it was home in Filippidis’ safe.

Read the story here


#2    Leonardo

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 11:05 PM

What a load of hyperbolic bs by that article's author.

That the officer wanted to check the vehicle for a gun does not mean he was going to confiscate it.

The family was not "treated as if criminals" simply by the fact of owning a gun, and there is no indication the stop was illegal.

Is this the best the pro-gun lobby can push?

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#3    and then

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 11:25 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 17 January 2014 - 11:05 PM, said:

What a load of hyperbolic bs by that article's author.

That the officer wanted to check the vehicle for a gun does not mean he was going to confiscate it.

The family was not "treated as if criminals" simply by the fact of owning a gun, and there is no indication the stop was illegal.

Is this the best the pro-gun lobby can push?
Why were they stopped?

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#4    OverSword

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 11:27 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 17 January 2014 - 11:05 PM, said:

What a load of hyperbolic bs by that article's author.

That the officer wanted to check the vehicle for a gun does not mean he was going to confiscate it.

The family was not "treated as if criminals" simply by the fact of owning a gun, and there is no indication the stop was illegal.

Is this the best the pro-gun lobby can push?
Bull leo.  They were pulled over because the cars owner was flagged as having a CCW permit.  They were then detained and the car was ilegaly searched.  Get real.


#5    and then

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Posted 17 January 2014 - 11:39 PM

View PostOverSword, on 17 January 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

Bull leo.  They were pulled over because the cars owner was flagged as having a CCW permit.  They were then detained and the car was ilegaly searched.  Get real.
Reinforces the caution that must be taken when traveling since some states recognize a citizen's right to self protection - EVEN when away from home on the open road and others do not.  In Mississippi a citizen's car is just like his home but in Alabama one must have a CCW to keep a firearm in the vehicle.  Going begging to some political hack with a sheriff's badge is still required in most states where you can even GET a CCW.  Constitutional carry sounds pretty darned good to me - but hey - I'm just a US citizen, what do I know?

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#6    Rafterman

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 12:14 AM

View PostLeonardo, on 17 January 2014 - 11:05 PM, said:

What a load of hyperbolic bs by that article's author.

That the officer wanted to check the vehicle for a gun does not mean he was going to confiscate it.

The family was not "treated as if criminals" simply by the fact of owning a gun, and there is no indication the stop was illegal.

Is this the best the pro-gun lobby can push?

How about the same story from the mainstream media?  Does that sit better with you?

If nothing was done wrong, why did internal affairs feel the need to apologize to the man?

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#7    Yamato

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 01:36 AM

So a concealed weapons permit is yet another tool that can be used by a police department to stop people, and perform searches and seizures and arrests where appropriate.  

I'm stunned.

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#8    aztek

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 01:48 AM

lol.

a bad case of wife having a big mouth

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#9    aquatus1

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 02:07 AM

Are there any links to the information on the case that don't include the words "oppressive", "dictatorial", "sacred", or "chilling"?  So far, all I have able to find are copies of columnist's Tom Jacksons original story.

Personally, I suspect the driver was pulled over for looking Hispanic within Baltimore city limits.


#10    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 02:42 AM

View Postaztek, on 18 January 2014 - 01:48 AM, said:

lol.

a bad case of wife having a big mouth
She panicked.


#11    Odin11

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 03:48 AM

This is just more bs from people who seem to operate under the insane logic that we will all somehow be safer if there is no gun control.

Becasue this is what the debate is really about. This is not a pro-gun vs. anti-gun debate, but a pro-gun control vs. anti-gun control debate. I see almost no one calling for a total ban on guns (yes I know that there are a few loons out there, thus the word almost) but more and more I see people suggesting, and in some cases out right saying, that no gun control would be better.

Edited by Odin11, 18 January 2014 - 03:48 AM.

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#12    aquatus1

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 05:40 AM

I have to agree.  While it seems clear, based on the little information we have, that the officer was out of line, it is true that a police officer should have the ability to know whether the person in the car he is approaching is licensed to carry a weapon.  It is simply too dangerous a variable to be left to chance or worse, surprise.  Similarly, if a police officer asks to see your license and your gun, you don't get to say no, not by any law of the land.  That this police officer was described abusing his position for reasons as yet unstated is a different matter.  I sincerely doubt the cop was so upset over someone carrying a CWP that he pulled them over, interrogated them, searched them, etc..  The CWP was just one of the justifications he used to cover whatever reason he actually had.


#13    Yamato

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 05:41 AM

View PostOdin11, on 18 January 2014 - 03:48 AM, said:

This is just more bs from people who seem to operate under the insane logic that we will all somehow be safer if there is no gun control.
We'll all be safer in the long run with less control.   The "somehow" is that power corrupts and great power corrupts greatly.   Guns are incidental, but they're also controversial so they get singled out and toyed with politically.

Another potentially insane logic I've heard repeated is that if there are less guns, they'll be less gun crimes!    If there were less drugs, there'd be less addicts.  If there was less spending there'd be less debt and deficit.   We can go on and on with the deprivation diet ideas and we can all do better.   But maybe the most insane thing of all is that you've got to get guns away from criminals who would use them.  And you can't do that by waving flowers at them or inviting them over for tea.  That takes good men with guns, which is a perfectly legitimate excuse I think we can all agree, but for some people, it's only when they're wearing a blue costume and collecting a govt paycheck.

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#14    Yamato

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 05:56 AM

Having a gun or permit is another excuse for cops to hassle you.   "Do you have any weapons?" is another question they love, and anything you say or do in response to that question, like any other question, will be used against you at that moment or much later in court.   One doesn't have to speak the 5th Amendment into existence, like Miranda it's already there, at all times.  If a cop is desperate to make his quota, he's human and fallible, he's under a lot of stress, he gets lied to a dozen times a day, and yes, cops on a busting binge can be real enemies of freedom after letting their power go to their heads.  Then they get rewarded for it with bonuses from the department.  I have to believe most cops love their jobs that they're willing to take the tremendous risks to their lives and livelihoods to make quite the regular-sized paycheck.

This fairly comical OP goes right to the same old lesson not to talk to police - ever - unless they're called by you or called on your behalf.

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#15    Leonardo

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Posted 18 January 2014 - 09:48 AM

View PostOverSword, on 17 January 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

Bull leo.  They were pulled over because the cars owner was flagged as having a CCW permit.  They were then detained and the car was ilegaly searched.  Get real.

No, the car was searched because the husband and his wife told different stories as to the location of the firearm, thus the officer had probable cause to suspect the husband was lying and so had some reason for carrying a weapon he wanted to hide.

'Probable cause' is not "illegal".

The husband and his wife were on different channels regarding the necessity for owning a gun. Obviously, his wife did not want the family to have one. Whether the husband knew this and didn't care - assuming that, as the 'man, he was automatically in authority - or whether he didn't know because he doesn't bother finding out who his wife is, is irrelevant.

In any case, what caused the officer to have 'reasonable suspicion' were the couple themselves. They have only themselves to blame for the search.

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"It is a profound and necessary truth that the deep things in science are not found because they are useful; they are found because it was possible to find them."  - J. Robert Oppenheimer; Scientific Director; The Manhattan Project

"talking bull**** is not a victimless crime" - Marina Hyde, author.




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