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The Great Pyramid Ramp System by M. Williams

pyramid ramp construction theory houdin

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#1    M. Williams

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 05:03 PM

Hello

My name is mason Williams . I am a stonemason and researcher of ancient construction techniques. I am preparing to 3D model an exterior ramp for the Great Pyramid , one that fits the evidence.

I  welcome any constructive critiques or questions you may have .

Thanks
mason


https://www.academia..._Mason_Williams


#2    cladking

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 06:45 PM

Hi;

All ramp theories have  logical and evidential weaknesses since the evidence
shows the pyramids were constructed by stones moving directly from the quarries
with no interruption as evidenced by the horizontral lines.  There are also vertical
lines visible in these structure showing some unknown and subtle process can
leave traces in  the finished product but no such trace of something so fundamental
as a ramp exists.  The word ramp isn't even attested in the great pyramid building age.

Ramps simply don't fit in with the fact they built a great pyramid first.  They started with
little tiny mastabs low rto the ground and went straight to a 200' tall pyramid. This is in-
dicative of a breakthroughin technology or the emergence of a resource that hadn't ex-
isted previously and not some unknowable improvement in ramp technology. Of course,
this last point could be mitigated by your invention here.

Ramps are not consistent with stepped pyramids and bot S1 and G1 are obviously step-
ped pyramids.

Edited by cladking, 19 January 2014 - 06:45 PM.

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#3    M. Williams

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 08:52 PM

It is strange they didn't have a word for ramp ? I guess that would be superceded by the fact they had actual ramps to point at and go " that thing over there". Also,  a  gently sloping ramp may have been no different than a road or pathway to them. Do they have a word for road , path etc.. I wonder ? All my ramp is, is a continuation of the methods we know were used on the ground to move stones.

If you look at a Cathedral for instance , there is no sign of ramps ,scaffolding or any other means of moving stone on the structure itself. The best scaffold (ramp)  is the one that leaves no sign of its existence. But luckily the Egyptians left us plenty of indications of how they moved stone . Countless ramps can be found today, right now , some with sleeper ties. For what possible reason would a road bed have sleeper ties except to help move stone ? There are obvious 7* sloped lines on the side of the great pyramid , what are these if not the remains of a ramp ?

(note)  Vertical lines on the face of the pyramid can easily be explained by stones falling from the top. One expect to see the tallest parts, where the most stones are , to have the deepest lines.

Edited by M. Williams, 19 January 2014 - 09:16 PM.


#4    taniwha

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 09:28 PM

Hi mason,   Do you have any photos or links of the sloped lines on the great pyramid please would be good.  Where are the countless ramps found? can you post a photo of them too?

There could be some merit to your scaffold ramp, looks good on paper.  Chances of a blowout would be increased if we didnt already know the egyptians were master masons as evidenced by their impressive monuments.  The engineering techniques are a fascinating mystery and though many interesting theories abound I too believe the secret hasnt completely been resolved.

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#5    M. Williams

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Posted 19 January 2014 - 11:35 PM

Hello Taniwha, thanks for the welcome

There are many ramps to be found in and out of quarries, causeways leading to structures. Every inclined passageway inside a pyramid or mustaba was a ramp before the stones were laid on it, the Grand Gallery, ascending descending passages. The construction break at Meidum is shaped like a ramp. I could go on and on, they loved the inclined plane in A.E. and knew how to maneuver stone on them. Google Great Pyramid ramp lines, sleeper ties at Lisht etc.. still trying to figure my new computer .

Cheers
Mason

Edited by M. Williams, 19 January 2014 - 11:40 PM.


#6    Harte

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 01:38 AM

View PostM. Williams, on 19 January 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

Hello

My name is mason Williams . I am a stonemason and researcher of ancient construction techniques. I am preparing to 3D model an exterior ramp for the Great Pyramid , one that fits the evidence.

I  welcome any constructive critiques or questions you may have .

Thanks
mason
https://www.academia..._Mason_Williams
Seems plausible to me.

I've seen that leverage technique in theories of possible methods used by South Amrican Natives (the Inca and Maya, et al.)

I've been advocating for  spiral ramps here and elsewhere for years.  Not sure wood would have been used.  Tends to splinter.

The rubble that filled one of the adjacent quarries meets specifications for a temporary ramp though.

I doubt such a system would be used before they got more than a quarter of the way up the side (or more.) Prior to that point, several ramps extending out perpendicular to the sides would have facilitated a far larger volume of stone delivery per unit time.  Once you hit about a third of the way up, you've already placed over half of the stone volume.

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#7    M. Williams

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 02:04 AM

View PostHarte, on 20 January 2014 - 01:38 AM, said:

Seems plausible to me.

I've seen that leverage technique in theories of possible methods used by South Amrican Natives (the Inca and Maya, et al.)

I've been advocating for  spiral ramps here and elsewhere for years.  Not sure wood would have been used.  Tends to splinter.

The rubble that filled one of the adjacent quarries meets specifications for a temporary ramp though.

I doubt such a system would be used before they got more than a quarter of the way up the side (or more.) Prior to that point, several ramps extending out perpendicular to the sides would have facilitated a far larger volume of stone delivery per unit time.  Once you hit about a third of the way up, you've already placed over half of the stone volume.

Harte
Hi Harte

Wood is an ideal material to build a ramp out of using tongue and groove ,mortise/tendon etc.. . Using Acacia plantation yields, data indicates it would require 100 acres of forest to provide the 150 tons per year  (assuming 20 year construction schedule)  needed to construct two all wood ramps as my drawing shows.  

As for splintering and such ... I think railroad trestles show just how much wear and tear a wood structure can take and at much greater stresses than a pyramid ramp would ever be subjected to.

If an all wood ramp was impossible for whatever reason , stone could be used in between the corners as my drawing shows. By keeping the stones one cubit tall the stones could be brought up to build the upper portion of the pyramid. Using dimensional stone is very sturdy. A rubble ramp is IMHO is dangerous and prone to failure.

Cheers
Mason

Edited by M. Williams, 20 January 2014 - 02:42 AM.


#8    Harte

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 02:14 AM

I didn't mean splintering from the weight, I meant splintering from the wear of thousands of sandy limestone blocks scraping along the wood.

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#9    blackdogsun

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 03:51 AM

the pyramid causeways are inclined pathways leading up from the Nile to the pyramids.
aren't these, in a sense, a form of ramp?
what name did the ancient Egyptians have for these structures?

i would suspect that any designer of the pyramids would naturally want to economize on the construction of any ramps by incorporating them into the existing structure of the pyramid as it was being built. then later filling these in from the top down as the casing stones were installed and finished. (not necessarily as Houdin and Brier theorise, but similar)
this may be why we find no evidence of their existence on the outside today.


#10    blackdogsun

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 04:05 AM

also of interest is kmt_sesh's post of the apparent remains of a ramp used in the construction of the great pyramid
http://www.unexplain...5
see post #227


#11    third_eye

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 04:39 AM

Hi M Williams ...

Your Scale and ergonomics is all out of skew, what is required is not only moving irregular size blocks up the sides, due consideration must be given to the dressing, fitting and the number of masons working on the particular sections of each singular block in question ~ plus most glaring of all is this ramp does not take into account of the needs and means required for the internal of the Pyramid (if this is in relation to the G1) which is the chambers and passage ways ... as for this ramp idea being for moving the smaller blocks and at the lower levels for the smaller temples or structures it may be quite possible but I seriously doubt it to be feasible or workable for the greater scale in relation to the construction of the greater Pyramids ...

are you familiar with Wally Wallington ?

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#12    M. Williams

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 05:08 AM

View Postthird_eye, on 20 January 2014 - 04:39 AM, said:

Hi M Williams ...

Your Scale and ergonomics is all out of skew, what is required is not only moving irregular size blocks up the sides, due consideration must be given to the dressing, fitting and the number of masons working on the particular sections of each singular block in question ~ plus most glaring of all is this ramp does not take into account of the needs and means required for the internal of the Pyramid (if this is in relation to the G1) which is the chambers and passage ways ... as for this ramp idea being for moving the smaller blocks and at the lower levels for the smaller temples or structures it may be quite possible but I seriously doubt it to be feasible or workable for the greater scale in relation to the construction of the greater Pyramids ...

are you familiar with Wally Wallington ?

Welcome to W.T. Wallington's Forgotten Technology Official Website
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Hello Imaginaerius

I agree my drawing is pretty amateur,i'm only a stonemason after all, it's merely the ideas and dimensions for my engineer/timber framer to reference. The graph paper I drew it on doesn't scan so it's hard to scale it off the computer. My modeling i'm doing will look better. But I believe the basic idea gets across for now.

The ramp as shown is the upper 70 feet or so of the pyramid, where the heaviest stone seems to be the pyramidion at 7-15 tons. The sleds are designed to carry 5 - 10 tons approx. with a 10-20 man pulling/levering team or phyle. Since the ramp has a gradual incline the sleds can be loaded with anything from water to gypsum. No workers are present on the ramp except for the stone hauling teams, all other stonemasonry can be done using the unfinished casing stones as a scaffold. My drawing shows the absolute smallest footprint possible for my ramp, I imagine though that all the casing stones were left unfinished until the end and finished from the top down.

As for the strength and stability of wood trestles and stone embankments carrying weight you need only look at the railroad industry where wood trestles built using 12"x12" posts easily support multi-thousand ton trains . Some of these trestles are 150 feet tall and were well within the capabilities of the Egyptian carpenters.

Mason

Edited by M. Williams, 20 January 2014 - 05:25 AM.


#13    M. Williams

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 05:22 AM

View PostHarte, on 20 January 2014 - 02:14 AM, said:

I didn't mean splintering from the weight, I meant splintering from the wear of thousands of sandy limestone blocks scraping along the wood.

Harte

Oh, I see. That's why on my ramp setup I have a 'U' shaped ,hollowed out rail that the sled rides in, eliminating the intrusion of dust /sand  . I believe this rail may be what the notched log in the Djehutihotep statue hauling scene is . I believe the bottom corner may be depicting the three main components of the rail system ; the lubricant carriers, the levers, and the rail section(not to be confused with the sleepers).  I propose that the notches are lever points , used to propel the sled when necessary.

Mason


#14    DieChecker

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 05:42 AM

View PostM. Williams, on 19 January 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:


I'm not sure why, but the site is not coming up for me. I'll try again tomorrow at work on a better computer. Maybe you could link the drawing directly?

From the description, I tend to agree with Harte that the lowest levels would have been much easier done with short straight ramps, but I could see a timber ramp being used higher up. They might have even used mortises in the unfinished cladding. Then cleaned up the holes on the way down. Or, filled them in with white limestone mortor. After it was cleaned up no one would be the wiser.

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#15    M. Williams

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Posted 20 January 2014 - 05:53 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 20 January 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

I'm not sure why, but the site is not coming up for me. I'll try again tomorrow at work on a better computer. Maybe you could link the drawing directly?

From the description, I tend to agree with Harte that the lowest levels would have been much easier done with short straight ramps, but I could see a timber ramp being used higher up. They might have even used mortises in the unfinished cladding. Then cleaned up the holes on the way down. Or, filled them in with white limestone mortor. After it was cleaned up no one would be the wiser.
Their site went down , should be back up shortly. Check out my drawings at academia, you might like it.

Mason






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