Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * - - 1 votes

Can God's existence be scientifically proved?

god proof

  • Please log in to reply
632 replies to this topic

#586    Almagest

Almagest

    Paranormal Investigator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 838 posts
  • Joined:16 Mar 2013

Posted 03 February 2014 - 07:55 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 02 February 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

This means that our modern era, since H. floresiensis died out,  (about 17000 years ago)  is the only time in the four-million-year human history that just one type of human has been alive,  said David Reich, a geneticist at Harvard Medical School who was the lead author of the Nature paper on the Denisovans.

I think my point still stands. They split from us half a million years ago, yet still shared many traits with our Homo Sapien ancestors. This doesn't represent a lineage with leading directly to us, but a lineage of increasing intelligence and toolmaking skills across many branches, only one of which survived to the present day. Had our ancestors been more affected by the Lake Toba catastrophe it might be a different story altogether.

Heaven and hell suppose two distinct species of men, the good and the bad. But the greatest part of mankind float betwixt vice and virtue. - David Hume

#587    Mr Walker

Mr Walker

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 19,342 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Sometimes the Phantom leaves the jungle, and walks the streets of the city like an ordinary man.

Posted 03 February 2014 - 08:10 AM

View Postspacecowboy342, on 03 February 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

I think you are confusing a soul with consciousness. I'm not sure how you would explain the evolution of an immortal spiritual soul that can live independently from nothing through any physical processes. What survival benefit did it give? What genes give rise to it?

There is no evidence for an immortal spirit, which  thus probably does not exist, but plenty of existence for a mortal soul. It is not I who is confused. The human soul demonstrably exists. Its mortality is a matter of (religious) belief Consciousness, and hence soul, cannot exist without a host to create it, or one to store it. However that host can come in many forms. A sufficiently intelligent machine would have a soul, as would any sufficiently self aware animal. It would then face the hoary questions which those of us with a soul must all face up to. If one can make the host immortal, then the spirit becomes immortal and so does the soul.

Edited by Mr Walker, 03 February 2014 - 08:10 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#588    Sohameddy

Sohameddy

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
  • Joined:03 Feb 2014

Posted 03 February 2014 - 08:19 AM

When you have experienced God's presence, do you still going around trying to prove His/Her's existence? I am 100.00% sure of God's existence and I am in a state of "Doubtless over His/Her's existence".


#589    Almagest

Almagest

    Paranormal Investigator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 838 posts
  • Joined:16 Mar 2013

Posted 03 February 2014 - 09:04 AM

View PostSohameddy, on 03 February 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

When you have experienced God's presence, do you still going around trying to prove His/Her's existence? I am 100.00% sure of God's existence and I am in a state of "Doubtless over His/Her's existence".

So you're 100% sure of it's existence but you don't even know the gender?

Heaven and hell suppose two distinct species of men, the good and the bad. But the greatest part of mankind float betwixt vice and virtue. - David Hume

#590    Mr Walker

Mr Walker

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 19,342 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Sometimes the Phantom leaves the jungle, and walks the streets of the city like an ordinary man.

Posted 03 February 2014 - 10:51 AM

View PostAlmagest, on 03 February 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

So you're 100% sure of it's existence but you don't even know the gender?

Not being human god does not have a human gender , but we assign a gender to it.  Because I am male I tend to feel and hear god as a male (mostly) although often it is a neutral or feminine presence. Although even this is not definitive.

God appears as male, female, light energy, sound, animals, trees, or anything god wants to appear as.

In another sense it is like a ship. We call them she but they are actually in human terms gender neutral.

God is an alien being.

  Perhaps it is "his" authority and power which tended to make primitive and paternalistic humans see god as male, but gaea is a female manifestation of god .

Ps there are a lot of humans whose gender I am not certain of, despite having met them .

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#591    Etu Malku

Etu Malku

    Paranormal Investigator

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 847 posts
  • Joined:03 Aug 2012
  • Gender:Male

Posted 03 February 2014 - 04:45 PM

View PostSohameddy, on 03 February 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

When you have experienced God's presence, do you still going around trying to prove His/Her's existence? I am 100.00% sure of God's existence and I am in a state of "Doubtless over His/Her's existence".
How do you 'experience' your god?

View PostMr Walker, on 03 February 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

There is no evidence for an immortal spirit, which  thus probably does not exist, but plenty of existence for a mortal soul . . . blah blah blah
There's no proof of a soul, so what are you talking about?

Tarkhem Productions
   IAMTHATIAMNOT

#592    Mr Walker

Mr Walker

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 19,342 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Sometimes the Phantom leaves the jungle, and walks the streets of the city like an ordinary man.

Posted 03 February 2014 - 10:25 PM

View PostEtu Malku, on 03 February 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:

How do you 'experience' your god?

There's no proof of a soul, so what are you talking about?

I experince my god in the same ways I experience the existence of my dog and hence know that both are equally real and exist independent of me.. The human soul is self evident in our abilitiies. Eg song, dance, music, painting, imagination, story telling, an ability to lie, an abilty to know consequence and good and evil. We construct it through conscience, knowledge, and self aware feed back of experince and mind.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#593    spacecowboy342

spacecowboy342

    Traveler of both time and space

  • Member
  • 4,130 posts
  • Joined:22 Aug 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

  • I shall now proceed to entangle the entire area

Posted 03 February 2014 - 11:15 PM

View Postpallidin, on 03 February 2014 - 07:46 AM, said:

You are dealing with a much higher dimension and rules. No, God can not be "scientifically proven"
No God can not be scientifically disproved. If God exists and decides to show up and perform a few miracles for scientists He could be proved easily


#594    spacecowboy342

spacecowboy342

    Traveler of both time and space

  • Member
  • 4,130 posts
  • Joined:22 Aug 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

  • I shall now proceed to entangle the entire area

Posted 03 February 2014 - 11:20 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 03 February 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

There is no evidence for an immortal spirit, which  thus probably does not exist, but plenty of existence for a mortal soul. It is not I who is confused. The human soul demonstrably exists. Its mortality is a matter of (religious) belief Consciousness, and hence soul, cannot exist without a host to create it, or one to store it. However that host can come in many forms. A sufficiently intelligent machine would have a soul, as would any sufficiently self aware animal. It would then face the hoary questions which those of us with a soul must all face up to. If one can make the host immortal, then the spirit becomes immortal and so does the soul.
What evidence do you have that the soul demonstrably exists? I have never seen it demonstrated. I still think you mistake soul for consciousness, which does demonstrably exist. The sense of self we all have is an illusion. We are the configuration of our neural nets and our brain chemistry and physical bodies. Nothing more. What evidence is there for a soul that doesn't fit one of these categories?


#595    Mr Walker

Mr Walker

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 19,342 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Sometimes the Phantom leaves the jungle, and walks the streets of the city like an ordinary man.

Posted 07 February 2014 - 02:28 AM

View Postspacecowboy342, on 03 February 2014 - 11:20 PM, said:

What evidence do you have that the soul demonstrably exists? I have never seen it demonstrated. I still think you mistake soul for consciousness, which does demonstrably exist. The sense of self we all have is an illusion. We are the configuration of our neural nets and our brain chemistry and physical bodies. Nothing more. What evidence is there for a soul that doesn't fit one of these categories?
You are mistaken and have been "lied to" by people who are  led astray by the illusionary nature of reality.

Reality is real and physical but some people can't see this. They see an illusion of the mind.

The soul is self evident to any thnking person who reads widely,  studies humanity,  and applies logic to its nature. Yes it IS the conscious self aware nature of humans which creates and enables the soul, but it is like conscience. It has real  effects and feedbacks that afect our physial and  mental well being. A strong and healthy soul will create a strong and healthy being inmind and usually in body.Iit will rsist doing evil and temptations which cause trouble for the body. A weak and powerless soul makes a person prey to weaknesses and poor choices for example.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#596    Nightmaker47

Nightmaker47

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 80 posts
  • Joined:25 Sep 2013
  • Gender:Male

  • What's the matter? Kitty got your tounge?

Posted 07 February 2014 - 03:03 AM

Unless god reveals himself, no.


#597    Sean93

Sean93

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 725 posts
  • Joined:24 Nov 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ireland

  • WRATH

Posted 07 February 2014 - 03:48 AM

I think that if god is as powerful and metaphysical a being and spiritual people say he or she is, then it's be pretty silly for us to even try to find him or prove him.

The only reason any of us know about god is because the idea and notion that there may be such a being has been planted in our heads and we've been left to consider it. I wouldn't be confident enough to take someone else's word as proof of god, that's why I'm not a believer when it comes to the faiths of our own planet but the idea of a god/creator is interesting. Plus, if god wanted us to know about him/her, they're doing a horrible job about it inters of spreading the word around. I find it hard to accept that a few people were trusted with 'The Word' and were left to spread it, especially in times when a paddle boat was the epitome of travel.

For me, I imagine a totally impersonal creative force - something powerful but not affected by us in anyway. We're one of many many creatures on a little ball of rock, our universe is so big and there could be many more gods, religions and civilizations out there (There's thousands on our own planet even). See now I'm getting into one, I just wish god would show him/herself. I hate the idea of religiosity and having to feel bad about being human but I'd be willing to search for god (I've asked for signs before) on my own terms. I mean if cultures all over the world can be answered by different gods then why shouldn't I? Am I doing it wrong? Are believers delusional or am I godless? If god is anything like people say he/she is then I hope to remain the latter, even in the face of death. Though it does scare me but such is indoctrination and the disability that is fear.

"Be peaceful, be courteous, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery."

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”

#598    spacecowboy342

spacecowboy342

    Traveler of both time and space

  • Member
  • 4,130 posts
  • Joined:22 Aug 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Texas

  • I shall now proceed to entangle the entire area

Posted 07 February 2014 - 04:13 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 07 February 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

You are mistaken and have been "lied to" by people who are  led astray by the illusionary nature of reality.

Reality is real and physical but some people can't see this. They see an illusion of the mind.

The soul is self evident to any thnking person who reads widely,  studies humanity,  and applies logic to its nature. Yes it IS the conscious self aware nature of humans which creates and enables the soul, but it is like conscience. It has real  effects and feedbacks that afect our physial and  mental well being. A strong and healthy soul will create a strong and healthy being inmind and usually in body.Iit will rsist doing evil and temptations which cause trouble for the body. A weak and powerless soul makes a person prey to weaknesses and poor choices for example.
I would say that I read widely, study humanity and apply logic to it's nature and I categorically deny that the soul is self evident to anyone who doesn't pre-suppose it's existence


#599    Mr Walker

Mr Walker

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 19,342 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Sometimes the Phantom leaves the jungle, and walks the streets of the city like an ordinary man.

Posted 08 February 2014 - 07:33 AM

View Postspacecowboy342, on 07 February 2014 - 04:13 AM, said:

I would say that I read widely, study humanity and apply logic to it's nature and I categorically deny that the soul is self evident to anyone who doesn't pre-suppose it's existence
Then you have not read widely enough or the right sort of books You seem to be hung up on some of the modern pseudo science which combines one aspect quantum science with an old philosphical view that nothing is rea.l The human souls is real and can be seen and its activiities read on advanced Mris, via the workings of our brain's electrical patterns and thoughts.

But then you deny the reality of many physical things within the human mind. Human  thoughts are concrete in their nature. They burn neural pathways through our brain, and can be measured They also cause us to create concrete forms in our environment such as statues paintings and other beautiful things from our imaginations. Even the very concept of beauty is an abstract and symbolic thought form within individual and generic parameters ie I will find something beautiful which you may not, but there will be other things which we both find beautiful.

Our soul enables us to; see, feel, and express; love, hate, envy, pity, compassion, empathy,  anger, joy etc as self aware and intellectual physical choices.

It enables us to chose and create; art, music, song, dance etc.; to show in physical forms the understandings of our mind, Anyone who reads, and hence gets inside the thoughts of others via books, can see this happening. One does not have to even know of the souls existence let alone presuppose it it cries out within us and makes itself known. If you cant feel it then you are shutting it down and deliberately denying it. Do you read for pleasure? Do you compose music poetry or creative writing? Paint, sing, play the drums or use your imagination in any way to express your self? . If you do not, then perhaps you haven't recognised this ability in your self. if you do, then you MUST know of the existence of your soul within you. You probably even think that  love is nothing more than a neuro- chemical reaction of the mind and body. You poor deluded being. :innocent:  Watch "The Princess Bride" a dozen times as penance. :devil:

Edited by Mr Walker, 08 February 2014 - 07:39 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#600    ironhead1

ironhead1

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 53 posts
  • Joined:04 Jan 2014

Posted 08 February 2014 - 07:42 AM


It has been said that in the East the antithesis between faith and science is a pseudo-problem, Why? Because gnosiology in the East is defined by the object to be known which is twofold: the Uncreated and the created. Only the Holy Trinity is Uncreated. The universe (or universes) in which our existence is realized, is created. Faith is knowledge of the Uncreated, and science is knowledge of the created. Therefore, they are two different types of knowledge, each having its own method and tools of inquiry.

The believer, moving within the territory of supernatural, or knowledge of the Uncreated, is not called to learn something metaphysically or to accept something logically, but to experience God by being in communion with Him. This is accomplished by introducing him to a way of life or method which leads to divine knowledge.

It has been correctly stated that if Christianity were to appear for the first time in our era, it would have taken the form of a therapeutic institution, a hospital to reinstate and restore the function of man as a psychosomatic being. That is why Saint John Chrysostom calls the Church a spiritual hospital. Supernatural-theological knowledge is understood in Orthodoxy as pathos (experience of life), as participation and communion with the transcendent and not an unreachable personal truth of the Uncreated and certainly not a mere exercise in learning. Thus, the Christian faith is not the abstract contemplative adoption of metaphysical truths, it is rather, the experience of beholding True Being: the experience of the Supersubstantial (Superessential) Trinity.

sers.uoa.gr/~nektar/orthodoxy/tributes/gewrgios_metallhnos/faith_and_science_english.htm







Also tagged with god, proof

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users