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Supreme Court unions case could mean 'ruin'

supreme court unions

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#1    DieChecker

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 04:40 AM

http://www.foxnews.c...Politics - Text)

Quote

Charles Krauthammer told viewers Tuesday on “Special Report with Bret Baier” that a Supreme Court ruling on a labor unions case could potentially be “a blow to organized labor from which they would not recover,” depending on how the justices rule.

Sure... sure.... Fox News... I know. But the source does not mean the speculation is wrong. If the SCOTUS rules for the individual homecare Healthcare workers... preventing the State from forcing them to pay Union dues, that could set a powerful Federal precident that might see union membership dwindle rapidly.

Quote

A decade ago, the state amended its public labor relations act to classify personal care attendants as state employees for the purpose of collective bargaining, forcing them to pay union dues. An attorney for some of the workers argued Tuesday that their constitutional rights are being violated.


Edited by DieChecker, 22 January 2014 - 04:40 AM.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#2    Frank Merton

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 05:00 AM

Unions are an enterprise not much different from other businesses where the union leadership makes a good living persuading the ranks that they can provide better working conditions and salaries than can a free labor market.

It can work for periods of time when the organized industry is a monopoly or near-monopoly and the union can organize all the businesses in that field, but ultimately it makes the industry uncompetitive and thereby generates substitution, new competitors, imports, and new technology making the industry obsolete.  Unions are, in effect, an effort to keep the tide from coming in by building higher and higher dikes.

As a worker I might support a union for things like workplace safety and somewhat better wages, but not for long-range things like pensions.


#3    coolguy

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 05:35 AM

I was in the union for 7 years they did zip or me.the only thing is u can't be fired. They need to go away


#4    wallarookiller

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 06:57 AM

Well, either way it will be interesting to see how this plays out in the long run. Forcing people to pay a due to work def seems like it shouldn't be legal, but we'll see how they vote.

If they do rule it unconstitutional it will be a blow to organized labor. Maybe not at first,  but eventually it will dip. It won't go away, but it will dip for sure.


#5    preacherman76

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 01:17 PM

Here in NY most workers who work for unions are far better off then most. I have a friend who is a iron worker in NYC, and you would think he was a doctor with all the money he makes. NTM a huge retirement, and the best health care. Its a shame really, how much money those unions drain from our state.

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#6    Frank Merton

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 01:23 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 22 January 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

Here in NY most workers who work for unions are far better off then most. I have a friend who is a iron worker in NYC, and you would think he was a doctor with all the money he makes. NTM a huge retirement, and the best health care. Its a shame really, how much money those unions drain from our state.
These are public unions who have a built-in monopoly to milk and essential services to hold the public ransom.


#7    Jeremiah65

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 08:50 PM

I am not against collective bargaining.  I do believe it has done many good things for the workers over the years...

However...

When people are forced to be a part of an organization "or else not have a job"...and then that organization exthorts the public or the organization they provide services and workers to...it has gone too far.

Collective bargaining isn't supposed to be "hostage taking" from either side...it is supposed to be a fair negotiation...of which I am in support of...but not the strong arming and bullying...

"Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it."  George Bernard Shaw
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."  Thomas Jefferson

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#8    aztek

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 09:57 PM

just work with union electricians for few days, onsite,  and you will see all the reasons why uinions need to go.

that is in case, big 3 example flew you by

Edited by aztek, 22 January 2014 - 09:57 PM.

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#9    DieChecker

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Posted 22 January 2014 - 09:58 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 22 January 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

These are public unions who have a built-in monopoly to milk and essential services to hold the public ransom.

From what I read in the article, the State congress legislated that these in home healthcare workers were part of the state union. They didn't vote to join a union, they were forced to by way of their chosen profession. It seems amazing to me that the state can mandate everyone of a specific profession MUST be part of THEIR union.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

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#10    supervike

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Posted 23 January 2014 - 04:12 PM

View Postcoolguy, on 22 January 2014 - 05:35 AM, said:

I was in the union for 7 years they did zip or me.the only thing is u can't be fired. They need to go away


They need to go away because YOU personally didn't get anything from it?

I think you may completly misunderstand what a Labor Union actually does.

If you just want to go by personal anecdotes, I've worked in both Union and non-Union shops.  There is a huge difference in the quality of the work, the way management does their job, and the general morale and productivity of the worker...and they all favored the Unionized ones.

It's no different than building a truck.  You could make one just using plastic parts, because those parts are extremely cheaper...but is that really a good business decision?  If labor is just another commodity for the buisness world, wouldn't it makes sense to invest in proven good labor?

Unions could do themselves a huge favor by getting off the political bandwagons, and get back to fairly representing the rank and file members. If they got back to the basis of what their core really is, I think it would only be good for American workers.

Unions need to restructure themselves, but they certainly don't need to go away.     If you think that the Corporations will never take advantage of workers once the unions are gone, you are going to be sorely wrong.


#11    Gromdor

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Posted 26 January 2014 - 03:55 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 22 January 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

Here in NY most workers who work for unions are far better off then most. I have a friend who is a iron worker in NYC, and you would think he was a doctor with all the money he makes. NTM a huge retirement, and the best health care. Its a shame really, how much money those unions drain from our state.
Not seeing how having a retirement, good health care and a decent pay is a drain to the state.  I would think that supporting workers who have no retirement, no health insurance, and living off food stamps would be a much greater strain.  And if anyone should get paid as much as a doctor, I would think it would be the guy connecting 3 ton pieces of steel 200 feet in the air.


#12    DieChecker

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 04:45 AM

I think unions are fine, as long as they don't drive the industry into closing down and effectively firing all the workers they represent. That would be kind of like a virus that kills the host so that the virus can't replicate anymore. If the industry can sustain a union, I think it is a good way to support the workers. As long as the workers actually want to be part of the union. I think people should have the right to opt out if they like. Though that brings up complications of wage gains due to the union's previous support. But, I think personnal choice in this should outweigh protecting financial benefit to the union.

Here at Intel we make processors on 12 inch wafers. And, the individual processors on the wafers are called die. And, I am employed to check these die. That is why I am the DieChecker.

At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid. - Friedrich Nietzsche

Qualifications? This is cryptozoology, dammit! All that is required is the spirit of adventure. - Night Walker

#13    Myles

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 02:05 PM

View Postsupervike, on 23 January 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

They need to go away because YOU personally didn't get anything from it?

I think you may completly misunderstand what a Labor Union actually does.

If you just want to go by personal anecdotes, I've worked in both Union and non-Union shops.  There is a huge difference in the quality of the work, the way management does their job, and the general morale and productivity of the worker...and they all favored the Unionized ones.

It's no different than building a truck.  You could make one just using plastic parts, because those parts are extremely cheaper...but is that really a good business decision?  If labor is just another commodity for the buisness world, wouldn't it makes sense to invest in proven good labor?

Unions could do themselves a huge favor by getting off the political bandwagons, and get back to fairly representing the rank and file members. If they got back to the basis of what their core really is, I think it would only be good for American workers.

Unions need to restructure themselves, but they certainly don't need to go away. If you think that the Corporations will never take advantage of workers once the unions are gone, you are going to be sorely wrong.

I can agree with most of what you posted.    I'd disagree on the morale part.    The union plants I've worked in have a strong us against them attitude towards the company.   Many workers constantly looking to find a grievence to file.   As someone mentioned earlier, unions make it much to hard to get rid of the weak links.   It takes a very full file of instences to fire someone.   This can take many years.  

The non-union plants I've worked at bennefitted from the threat of the union.    Keep your workers happy and the union will not be able to penetrate the plant.   So the unions serve a purpose.  

At the plant I currently work at, we are union (not me, I'm the dreaded management).   However Indiana has become a right to work state.   It'll be interesting how things go with the next contract which is this summer.   After that, there are a few workers who are going to opt out of paying dues.    Some of them because they disagree with where the funds are going politically.   I cannot argue that.   If you disagree with a particular party, you don't want to be helping to fund it.


#14    supervike

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 05:03 PM

View PostDieChecker, on 27 January 2014 - 04:45 AM, said:

I think unions are fine, as long as they don't drive the industry into closing down and effectively firing all the workers they represent. That would be kind of like a virus that kills the host so that the virus can't replicate anymore. If the industry can sustain a union, I think it is a good way to support the workers. As long as the workers actually want to be part of the union. I think people should have the right to opt out if they like. Though that brings up complications of wage gains due to the union's previous support. But, I think personnal choice in this should outweigh protecting financial benefit to the union.

In my state, we are a right to work state, so folks have the option to opt out of the Union if they'd like.  BUT, they are still entitled to whatever compensation the Union negotiates on behalf of the unionized workers, and still have the right to Union representation if there is an issue with management.

It seems a little unfair that they are entitled to union bargained gains, but on the other hand, I think it's even more unfair for someone to be forced to pay Union dues if they do not want to be affiliated with them.  So, their benefit from the union bargain gains is negligible, IMO.  However, not all Unionists feel that way about it.  Some still believe those folks are freeloaders at best, and scabs at worst.






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