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Creation of the universe and other stories

time creation universe big bang

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#121    White Crane Feather

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 02:31 PM

View PostRlyeh, on 07 February 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

Humans observing a non-existent universe which then brings the universe into existence is more convincing and simple than the universe forming from the ground energy state.

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No one said it had to be human ;)

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#122    spacecowboy342

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 06:33 PM

View PostWhite Crane Feather, on 07 February 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

No one said it had to be human ;)
It doesn't have to be conscious


#123    andy4

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 12:07 AM

View Postspacecowboy342, on 08 February 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

It doesn't have to be conscious

Ok, since I am clearly wrong, when exactly do particles decohere? Or do we not know yet?

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#124    spacecowboy342

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 01:49 AM



Edited by spacecowboy342, 09 February 2014 - 02:19 AM.


#125    andy4

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 02:35 AM

View Postspacecowboy342, on 09 February 2014 - 01:49 AM, said:



Thank you very much!

Love your brother as yourself, because you know what? He IS yourself, literally.- Bill Hicks

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#126    White Crane Feather

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 02:51 AM

View Postspacecowboy342, on 08 February 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

It doesn't have to be conscious
Indeed, but a man with your intelligence should be able to follow it to its  end... Or beginning.. Which might actually be the same thing. Actually consciousness is the only end game, which means its also the only beginning. You will figure it out. I have faith in you.

Edited by White Crane Feather, 09 February 2014 - 02:51 AM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#127    spacecowboy342

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 02:55 AM

View PostWhite Crane Feather, on 09 February 2014 - 02:51 AM, said:

Indeed, but a man with your intelligence should be able to follow it to its  end... Or beginning.. Which might actually be the same thing. Actually consciousness is the only end game, which means its also the only beginning. You will figure it out. I have faith in you.
Maybe you have more faith in me than I do. The best I can tell consciousness is an emergent property of our neural networks and not a thing unto itself. I have seen no evidence of consciousness absent a functioning brain


#128    White Crane Feather

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 07:43 AM

View Postspacecowboy342, on 09 February 2014 - 02:55 AM, said:

Maybe you have more faith in me than I do. The best I can tell consciousness is an emergent property of our neural networks and not a thing unto itself. I have seen no evidence of consciousness absent a functioning brain
Yes you have, you just haven't accepted it yet. The evidence is actually prolific, but lets not have another NDE discussion shall we.

Look natural selection  dictates that the only things to carry into the future are those things that can guarantee their stability or reproduce themselves. Consciousness is terribly good at this. In fact, its the best we have seen other than DNA, which of course Consciousness is a product of this ( in physicalist philosophy).

It's only taken about 4 billion years to evolve consciousness. The universe is much older than that, the multiverse older still on scales that are unimaginable. Of course this is not the only time it has evolved, of course what we see is probably just a the tip of the iceberg. The consistent mistake that humans always make is that we are ridding the tip of the wave when time and time again we are humbled to learn we are ridding the top if it. ( the average) We still have not learned after all this time that earth is not flat.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#129    spacecowboy342

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 09:44 AM

View PostWhite Crane Feather, on 09 February 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

Yes you have, you just haven't accepted it yet. The evidence is actually prolific, but lets not have another NDE discussion shall we.

Look natural selection  dictates that the only things to carry into the future are those things that can guarantee their stability or reproduce themselves. Consciousness is terribly good at this. In fact, its the best we have seen other than DNA, which of course Consciousness is a product of this ( in physicalist philosophy).

It's only taken about 4 billion years to evolve consciousness. The universe is much older than that, the multiverse older still on scales that are unimaginable. Of course this is not the only time it has evolved, of course what we see is probably just a the tip of the iceberg. The consistent mistake that humans always make is that we are ridding the tip of the wave when time and time again we are humbled to learn we are ridding the top if it. ( the average) We still have not learned after all this time that earth is not flat.
I think you make assumptions that I am not ready to make. I think the possible age of the multiverse(if it exists) is irrelevant because there is no mechanism for information to flow between universes. And consciousness is not limited to humans. A rat is conscious. Just not as conscious as us. And to say that somehow we evolved some spirit or soul makes no sense to me. Evolution has to do with material things. There is no evidence the spiritual exists other than anecdotal evidence which is unreliable. Suppose the universe is conscious. With the maximum speed which information can be transmitted across the universe would it not follow the universe would require billion of years to complete a single thought?


#130    Frank Merton

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 10:53 AM

If the universe can be said to be conscious, it is a consciousness different from the one we have -- very different -- so the whole idea is moot.


#131    taniwha

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 09:03 AM

The universe is a source of infinite wonder and it is easy for our minds to contemplate incredible and often fanciful thoughts by simply observing the night sky.

It is very human to compare the universe to our own behaviours and characteristics.  This is a starting point for understanding.  It is also a catalyst for the colourful creation stories which still glitters culture worldwide.

Inspiration has come a long way. Our methods of understanding and our stories have evolved considerably.  And still the prehistoric campfire within us all instinctively flickers on, sparking a host of questions and a warmth of ideas.

We gain a sense of self when viewing the vast cosmic mirror.    

I have enjoyed all the posts and have learned much.  :tu: Thanks all.



.... The mystery remains ....






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