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New signs of past life on Mars


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#1    qxcontinuum

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 05:46 AM

More and more recent discoveries are finding that Mars was once identical to Earth. From alkaline based sweet waters to salt oceans and now the most recent discovery of pas rich oxygen based compounds...gosh...what happened to that planet?

http://science.time....-signs-of-life/




#2    JasonPollock

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 06:33 AM

It's no surprise that Earth was not the only planet once inhabited in the solar system. It makes you wonder about how the other life forms survived.


#3    Hazzard

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 04:05 PM

Sounds to me like the jury is still out on this. :unsure:


From the link,...

Similarly life-friendly conditions established by Curiosity last month at Gale Crater were probably hundreds of millions of years younger, showing that Mars was hospitable—at least in certain places—for an extended period. That doesn’t guarantee that life ever did exist on Mars, but it sure doesn’t hurt.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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#4    qxcontinuum

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 04:50 PM

hazzard

I think you've already gotten the "exhibit A" don't you think so ? :-)


#5    scowl

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 04:54 PM

I didn't see anything that article that indicated there was new evidence of life on Mars, just more places that had a slim chance of supporting some form of life.


#6    qxcontinuum

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 06:27 PM

Ok lets see what we know about Mars so far;




Water · liquid water activity (aw)
· Past/future liquid (ice) inventories
· Salinity, pH, and Eh of available water Chemical environment Nutrients:
· C, H, N, O, P, S, essential metals, essential micronutrients
· Fixed nitrogen
· Availability/mineralogy
Toxin abundances and lethality:
· Heavy metals (e.g., Zn, Ni, Cu, Cr, As, Cd, etc., some essential, but toxic at high levels)
· Globally distributed oxidizing soils Energy for metabolism Solar (surface and near-surface only)
Geochemical (subsurface)
· Oxidants
· Reductants
· Redox gradients Conducive
physical conditions · Temperature
· Extreme diurnal temperature fluctuations
· Low pressure (Is there a low-pressure threshold for terrestrial anaerobes?)
· Strong ultraviolet germicidal irradiation
· Galactic cosmic radiation and solar particle events (long-term accumulated effects)
· Solar UV-induced volatile oxidants, e.g., O 2, O, H2O2, O3
· Climate/variability (geography, seasons, diurnal, and eventually, obliquity variations)
· Substrate (soil processes, rock microenvironments, dust composition, shielding)
· High CO2 concentrations in the global atmosphere
· Transport (aeolian, ground water flow, surface water, glacial)


Now we can ad Oxygen to all these...

We have a recipe for life here don't we?

Edited by qxcontinuum, 27 January 2014 - 06:28 PM.


#7    seeder

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 06:37 PM

View Postqxcontinuum, on 27 January 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

Ok lets see what we know about Mars so far;




Water · liquid water activity (aw)
· Past/future liquid (ice) inventories
· Salinity, pH, and Eh of available water Chemical environment Nutrients:
· C, H, N, O, P, S, essential metals, essential micronutrients
· Fixed nitrogen
· Availability/mineralogy
Toxin abundances and lethality:
· Heavy metals (e.g., Zn, Ni, Cu, Cr, As, Cd, etc., some essential, but toxic at high levels)
· Globally distributed oxidizing soils Energy for metabolism Solar (surface and near-surface only)
Geochemical (subsurface)
· Oxidants
· Reductants
· Redox gradients Conducive
physical conditions · Temperature
· Extreme diurnal temperature fluctuations
· Low pressure (Is there a low-pressure threshold for terrestrial anaerobes?)
· Strong ultraviolet germicidal irradiation
· Galactic cosmic radiation and solar particle events (long-term accumulated effects)
· Solar UV-induced volatile oxidants, e.g., O 2, O, H2O2, O3
· Climate/variability (geography, seasons, diurnal, and eventually, obliquity variations)
· Substrate (soil processes, rock microenvironments, dust composition, shielding)
· High CO2 concentrations in the global atmosphere
· Transport (aeolian, ground water flow, surface water, glacial)


Now we can ad Oxygen to all these...

We have a recipe for life here don't we?

qx, what kind of life, do you get seemingly excited about?  Aliens and their spacecraft?

Or the most likely form of Martian life, which would be bacterial/microbial?  Life, as we are, took a very long long time to evolve, but Mars never had that long.

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#8    scowl

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 06:53 PM

View Postqxcontinuum, on 27 January 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

We have a recipe for life here don't we?

The "recipe" for life is much more than a collection of ingredients.


#9    qxcontinuum

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 07:26 PM

View Postseeder, on 27 January 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

qx, what kind of life, do you get seemingly excited about?  Aliens and their spacecraft?

Or the most likely form of Martian life, which would be bacterial/microbial?  Life, as we are, took a very long long time to evolve, but Mars never had that long.

I will hope for some complex forms of life at least... once again i'll have to resume to carbon dating or Isotopic age dating on Earth as extremely volatile and inaccurate (see the out of place artifacts)

If the condition on mars were at least a few good millions of years constant having all the above ingredients, there was life! Like creatures with fur and tale chewing vegetables and mushrooms. I won't go further adding a few more million of years referring to potential advance civilizations that maybe was there moving on earth  a few thousand years in the past, helping monkeys evolving to proto-humans... etc...

Edited by qxcontinuum, 27 January 2014 - 07:35 PM.


#10    scowl

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 07:53 PM

View Postqxcontinuum, on 27 January 2014 - 07:26 PM, said:

If the condition on mars were at least a few good millions of years constant having all the above ingredients, there was life!

Life is much more than... oh wait, I already said that.


#11    Rafterman

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:07 PM

View PostJasonPollock, on 27 January 2014 - 06:33 AM, said:

It's no surprise that Earth was not the only planet once inhabited in the solar system. It makes you wonder about how the other life forms survived.

None of this points to Mars ever being inhabited.  All it shows is that the needed pieces as we understand them were present.

"For me, it is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
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#12    Rafterman

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:14 PM

View Postqxcontinuum, on 27 January 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

Ok lets see what we know about Mars so far;




Water · liquid water activity (aw)
· Past/future liquid (ice) inventories
· Salinity, pH, and Eh of available water Chemical environment Nutrients:
· C, H, N, O, P, S, essential metals, essential micronutrients
· Fixed nitrogen
· Availability/mineralogy
Toxin abundances and lethality:
· Heavy metals (e.g., Zn, Ni, Cu, Cr, As, Cd, etc., some essential, but toxic at high levels)
· Globally distributed oxidizing soils Energy for metabolism Solar (surface and near-surface only)
Geochemical (subsurface)
· Oxidants
· Reductants
· Redox gradients Conducive
physical conditions · Temperature
· Extreme diurnal temperature fluctuations
· Low pressure (Is there a low-pressure threshold for terrestrial anaerobes?)
· Strong ultraviolet germicidal irradiation
· Galactic cosmic radiation and solar particle events (long-term accumulated effects)
· Solar UV-induced volatile oxidants, e.g., O 2, O, H2O2, O3
· Climate/variability (geography, seasons, diurnal, and eventually, obliquity variations)
· Substrate (soil processes, rock microenvironments, dust composition, shielding)
· High CO2 concentrations in the global atmosphere
· Transport (aeolian, ground water flow, surface water, glacial)


Now we can ad Oxygen to all these...

We have a recipe for life here don't we?

1/2 cup butter   
1/2 teaspoon baking soda
1 cup cornmeal
1 cup all-purpose flour
1/2 teaspoon salt   
2/3 cup white sugar
2 eggs
1 cup buttermilk

Well this is the recipe for Grandma's Cornbread.  But no one would call it cornbread at this stage.

"For me, it is better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
                                                                                                                                           - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World:  Science as a Candle in the Dark

#13    qxcontinuum

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:36 PM

View PostRafterman, on 27 January 2014 - 08:14 PM, said:


1/2 cup butter   
1/2 teaspoon baking soda
1 cup cornmeal
1 cup all-purpose flour
1/2 teaspoon salt   
2/3 cup white sugar
2 eggs
1 cup buttermilk

Well this is the recipe for Grandma's Cornbread.  But no one would call it cornbread at this stage.

and yet still eatable!


#14    scowl

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Posted 27 January 2014 - 08:36 PM

View PostRafterman, on 27 January 2014 - 08:14 PM, said:

Well this is the recipe for Grandma's Cornbread.  But no one would call it cornbread at this stage.

Just mix them and heat them up.

Is cornbread supposed to be black and gritty?


#15    Hazzard

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 09:18 AM

Dbl post.

Edited by Hazzard, 28 January 2014 - 09:22 AM.

I still await the compelling Exhibit A.

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