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Definition of Socialism


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#1    RavenHawk

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 08:32 PM


Just curious but does the following definition meet your concept of what Socialism is?

"socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it. Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members."


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#2    Leonardo

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 08:36 PM

Do you have a source for where you got that definition from, RavenHawk?

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#3    questionmark

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 08:36 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 04 February 2014 - 08:32 PM, said:

Just curious but does the following definition meet your concept of what Socialism is?

"socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it. Society as a whole, therefore, should own or at least control property for the benefit of all its members."

Yes, that is the definition given by the inventor, a certain Mr. Engels based of the brain maxturbation of a certain Mr. Marx.

As you can see, most people you call socialist are not.

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#4    RavenHawk

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 08:54 PM

View PostLeonardo, on 04 February 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

Do you have a source for where you got that definition from, RavenHawk?
I believe that questionmark is correct that it originated with Engels.  I just want to know if you agree with that or not?


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#5    Eldorado

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 08:54 PM

Shoosh!  Folks need summat to hate and fear.


#6    RavenHawk

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 08:56 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 04 February 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

As you can see, most people you call socialist are not.
Well well see.  I want to see a few more replies, then Ill have a question for you.

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#7    Mr.United_Nations

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 08:57 PM

In other words the government owns companies


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Posted 04 February 2014 - 08:59 PM

View PostThe New Richard Nixon, on 04 February 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

In other words the government owns companies

No, the people own companies, where there is no individual ownership.;

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#9    Otto von Pickelhaube

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 09:09 PM

Well, I think an essential characteristic of socialism is state ownership of the means of production and a centrally planned economy. Neither of those things seem to be a characteristic of present day America, so perhaps if one did wish to seek to make analogies with totalitarian systems Fascism might be a more apt analogy, where the State certainly wanted to dictate to the hearts & minds of the people and cultivate a cult of the Leader, but the Economy was a private sector capitalis tone, which often had very close ties with senior figures in the government which worked to their mutual benefit. Not that that would be a close parallel with modern day America, of course. :innocent:

If, as it seems, we are in the process of becoming a totalitarian society in which the state apparatus is all-powerful, the ethics most important for the survival of the true, free, human individual would be: cheat, lie, evade, fake it, be elsewhere, forge documents, build improved electronic gadgets in your garage that’ll outwit the gadgets used by the authorities.

- Philip K. Dick.


#10    questionmark

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 09:10 PM

View PostColonel Rhubarb, on 04 February 2014 - 09:09 PM, said:

Well, I think an essential characteristic of socialism is state ownership of the means of production and a centrally planned economy. Neither of those things seem to be a characteristic of present day America, so perhaps if one did wish to seek to make analogies with totalitarian systems Fascism might be a more apt analogy, where the State certainly wanted to dictate to the hearts & minds of the people and cultivate a cult of the Leader, but the Economy was a private sector capitalis tone, which often had very close ties with senior figures in the government which worked to their mutual benefit. Not that that would be a close parallel with modern day America, of course. :innocent:

Now, now...

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#11    Babe Ruth

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 09:23 PM

I'm not sure that ownership of property is a requirement of socialism.  Costs can also be socialized it seems.  I think the ownership requirement narrows the meaning too much.


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Posted 04 February 2014 - 09:26 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 04 February 2014 - 09:23 PM, said:

I'm not sure that ownership of property is a requirement of socialism.  Costs can also be socialized it seems.  I think the ownership requirement narrows the meaning too much.

Th ownership system, in pure socialism is collective. Most "socialist systems" we know are so called social democratic, which surely is not socialistic. To the contrary of socialism social democracy allows private ownership but under the caution that "ownership carries obligation" and "common welfare precedes private welfare".

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#13    aztek

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 10:06 PM

in theory socialism is when everything is owned by people, but in reality, everything is owned by gvmnt, and people don't care less how well it works, cuz no matter how hard or little they work they get same benefits.
former ussr is perfect example. . anyone that lived there will tell you what socialism was in reality.

also no way during socialism any corporation would be big enough to affect gvmnt.  you would not be allowed to own something anything that big, or be rich enough to manupulate politics.  hell,  you would not be allowed to own much of anything

Edited by aztek, 04 February 2014 - 10:29 PM.

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#14    supervike

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 10:16 PM

In theory socialism sounds pretty good to me.

But, in application, it falls apart pretty quickly.


#15    aztek

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 10:20 PM

any ........ism will fail if it does not take human nature into account. you just can't expect everyone to be on the same page by themselves. it may work somewhat for a short time, after some big significant event, but not in a long run.

Edited by aztek, 04 February 2014 - 10:22 PM.

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