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After Snowden, a lesser Internet?


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#1    questionmark

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    Cinicus Magnus

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 03:01 PM

Washington Post said:


Edward Snowden’s supporters have portrayed him as the champion of Internet freedom. But when senior European and U.S. experts privately discuss the future of cyberspace, their fear is that the Internet may be closing, post-Snowden, rather than opening. “We may be the last generation to take joy from the Internet,” because of new boundaries and protectionism, as one American glumly put it.

Privacy advocates would argue that any dangers ahead are the fault of the pervasive surveillance systems of the National Security Agency, rather than Snowden’s revelation of them. I’ll leave that chicken-and-egg puzzle for historians. But it begs the question of how to prevent the anti-NSA backlash from shattering the relatively free and open Internet that has transformed the world — and which the NSA (and other security services) exploited. Unfortunately, the cure here could be worse than the disease, in terms of reduced access, cybersecurity and even privacy.

As a starting point, Americans need to understand just how angry Europeans are about the NSA’s invasion of their personal space. Secretary of State John F. Kerry cheerily told the Munich Security Conference last weekend that he foresees a “trans-Atlantic renaissance,” with new trade and diplomatic agreements. For now, such talk is just whistling past the NSA graveyard.

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#2    Dark_Grey

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 03:05 PM

This is one topic that makes me want to bury my head in the sand :unsure2:
The internet is the catalyst that will ultimately carry humanity to the next phase of evolution. As long as it stays free and open.

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat [the fruit] thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

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#3    questionmark

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    Cinicus Magnus

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 03:14 PM

View PostDark_Grey, on 06 February 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

This is one topic that makes me want to bury my head in the sand :unsure2:
The internet is the catalyst that will ultimately carry humanity to the next phase of evolution. As long as it stays free and open.

One thing is for sure, it will not be the same internet. European tech companies and service providers are already planning a great firewall to avoid NSA spying. And European politicians are already collecting money to help them.

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#4    ninjadude

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 03:03 AM

Sorry but I just don't see it. The internet is expanding at an almost geometric rate. Business won't allow this firewall to affect anything. I don't know who that "one American" is but it's just not happening. We can't keep up with all the expansion in the US and abroad. The EU will shut itself off at it's own peril.

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#5    spartan max2

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 03:07 AM

this is a rare moment but I agree with basically what ninjadude said

" I imagine that the intellegent people are the ones so intellegent that they dont even need or want to look "intellegent" anymore".
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#6    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 03:48 AM

View Postninjadude, on 07 February 2014 - 03:03 AM, said:

Sorry but I just don't see it. The internet is expanding at an almost geometric rate. Business won't allow this firewall to affect anything. I don't know who that "one American" is but it's just not happening. We can't keep up with all the expansion in the US and abroad. The EU will shut itself off at it's own peril.
I don't think the EU is shutting itself off, but rather shutting the US out.

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#7    and then

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 05:08 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 07 February 2014 - 03:48 AM, said:

I don't think the EU is shutting itself off, but rather shutting the US out.
As well they should in light of the circumstances!

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#8    OverSword

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 04:32 PM

This is the second time in five years I've agreed with ninjadude.


#9    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 10:29 PM

View Postninjadude, on 07 February 2014 - 03:03 AM, said:

Sorry but I just don't see it. The internet is expanding at an almost geometric rate. Business won't allow this firewall to affect anything. I don't know who that "one American" is but it's just not happening. We can't keep up with all the expansion in the US and abroad. The EU will shut itself off at it's own peril.
It won't just be the EU though, Russia will want in (just to p*** off America) which means China will want in too.
China and the EU are in, which means Australia who are a major trading partner with the EU and China, will want in too.
As I said, it'll not be "EU trapped in" but rather "America locked out".

And no doubt corporations will be allowed "in" as long as their servers etc aren't located in America. The only people not allowed in will be anyone whose servers are American or have ".gov" as their domain or have been proven to be fronts/whatever for the NSA.


It's all a stunt to make a point "we don't want American business if doing business with America means having the NSA watching us".

I must not fear. Fear is the Mind-Killer. It is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and to move through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see it's path.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

You may think you're cool, but you'll never be as cool as Peter Capaldi with an electric guitar, on a tank, playing the Doctor Who theme.

#10    questionmark

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    Cinicus Magnus

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 10:32 PM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 07 February 2014 - 10:29 PM, said:

It won't just be the EU though, Russia will want in (just to p*** off America) which means China will want in too.
China and the EU are in, which means Australia who are a major trading partner with the EU and China, will want in too.
As I said, it'll not be "EU trapped in" but rather "America locked out".

And no doubt corporations will be allowed "in" as long as their servers etc aren't located in America. The only people not allowed in will be anyone whose servers are American or have ".gov" as their domain or have been proven to be fronts/whatever for the NSA.


It's all a stunt to make a point "we don't want American business if doing business with America means having the NSA watching us".

Ah, one who looked beyond the obvious, congratulations.

Besides that, I suspect that both Google and Facebook (to just mention  two) would have to change their policies drastically if they want to be in the non-American Internet.

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#11    Dark_Grey

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 10:42 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 07 February 2014 - 10:32 PM, said:

Ah, one who looked beyond the obvious, congratulations.

Besides that, I suspect that both Google and Facebook (to just mention  two) would have to change their policies drastically if they want to be in the non-American Internet.

Google is buying up/laying down massive amounts of cable. The idea being that if they own the medium, they control all the information that flows through it. Apparently they have been working hard to circumvent the NSA as much as possible since the story with Snowden broke. Obviously they are still required to follow the law, but with all the resources at their disposal, plus some of the brightest minds in IT today, they would make a formidable opponent IMO. If all else fails, move your servers to the Cyberbunker!

Remember their motto when they were still just a search engine? "Don't be evil" :tu:

"For God doth know that in the day ye eat [the fruit] thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

"The tragedy of humanity is that we have stone age instincts, medieval institutions and god-like powers."


#12    questionmark

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    Cinicus Magnus

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 10:45 PM

View PostDark_Grey, on 07 February 2014 - 10:42 PM, said:

Google is buying up/laying down massive amounts of cable. The idea being that if they own the medium, they control all the information that flows through it. Apparently they have been working hard to circumvent the NSA as much as possible since the story with Snowden broke. Obviously they are still required to follow the law, but with all the resources at their disposal, plus some of the brightest minds in IT today, they would make a formidable opponent IMO. If all else fails, move your servers to the Cyberbunker!

Remember their motto when they were still just a search engine? "Don't be evil" :tu:

And besides that, constantly being probed outside the US of A on privacy concerns or monopoly laws (they have just settled one with the EU). Those problems will not go away, NSA or not.

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The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

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#13    preacherman76

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 02:35 PM

View Postninjadude, on 07 February 2014 - 03:03 AM, said:

Sorry but I just don't see it. The internet is expanding at an almost geometric rate. Business won't allow this firewall to affect anything. I don't know who that "one American" is but it's just not happening. We can't keep up with all the expansion in the US and abroad. The EU will shut itself off at it's own peril.

I agree. Even if they try, they cant divide us on this one. Left, right, center, whatever. We will be in one accord, and they will back off like the cowards they are.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.




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