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Counter-intuitive


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#1    markdohle

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 06:49 PM

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Counter-intuitive


I was talking to a friend of mine who is a licensed spiritual director.  I was sharing how hard it is for me to let go of the pain that others share with me.  After they leave, it can still stay with me for a timed and then some.  She said something that hit home and has helped me a great deal.

“If you carry others in your heart after they leave, their pain and sorrow if it festers, it is helpful neither for you nor for them.”

That was something I needed to hear.  It is not an asset when boundaries are weak.  People deserve respect and love, not pity and a compulsive desire to save them…which is impossible in any case.  We are all vessels of grace for others if we truly allow them to walk their own path, make their own mistakes and perhaps get worse at times.  Through it all we are asked to trust in God’s loving plan for all.  

Each person has their own struggles, and need support, but no one needs to be carried, or coddled to the point where they don’t move forward.  We need to be there for one another without getting into the whole ‘will to power’ thing…..which cause matters to get worse actually…people push back and they should when they feel they are being cornered or talked down to.

To trust in life’s process is not easy and actually counter-intuitive at times.



#2    pallidin

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 07:22 PM

You have "empathy", a healthy quality that helps prevent many from becomming a rapist or murderer or theif, etc...

Extreme empathy, from what I hear, can be counter-productive and even dangerous(where one is seen as an easy target)


#3    quiXilver

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 08:14 PM

View Postmarkdohle, on 09 February 2014 - 06:49 PM, said:

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Counter-intuitive


I was talking to a friend of mine who is a licensed spiritual director.  I was sharing how hard it is for me to let go of the pain that others share with me.  After they leave, it can still stay with me for a timed and then some.  She said something that hit home and has helped me a great deal.

“If you carry others in your heart after they leave, their pain and sorrow if it festers, it is helpful neither for you nor for them.”

That was something I needed to hear.  It is not an asset when boundaries are weak.  People deserve respect and love, not pity and a compulsive desire to save them…which is impossible in any case.  We are all vessels of grace for others if we truly allow them to walk their own path, make their own mistakes and perhaps get worse at times.  Through it all we are asked to trust in God’s loving plan for all.  

Each person has their own struggles, and need support, but no one needs to be carried, or coddled to the point where they don’t move forward.  We need to be there for one another without getting into the whole ‘will to power’ thing…..which cause matters to get worse actually…people push back and they should when they feel they are being cornered or talked down to.

To trust in life’s process is not easy and actually counter-intuitive at times.


Both my wife and I have experienced this trap, with each other and many close friends.

I agree with your friend's advice and your conclusion.  It's neither productive, nor healthy to wallow in another person's emotions.  For us to settle and hold onto these emotions, does nothing to solve the problem, but it does allow us to play in a self-created emotional theater, eating up time and using precious emotional and spiritual reservoirs, weakening us when we inevitably have to deal with something in our own life path.

Not only that, it's rather condescending and  to think I need to, or am able save my friends.  It assumes I know what their path requires.  That's supreme arrogance.

That said, there's no real way to unfeel an event, or turn myself into someone I'm not, someone who doesn't have empathy, but when I'm done dealing with a serious incident involving someone I care about and am now impacted by, I have a series of grounding exercises that effectively channel that energy out of my sphere of influence and free up my mind to relax and not tumble endlessly in the theater of repetitive emotional drama.

Qi Gong is the most effective method for me.
But I also use visualizations for channeling the energy, in seated meditation.

You sound like a good friend and a wise person.
Best to you on your path.
Good people rule!

Unknowingly, we plow the dust of stars, blown about us by the wind and drink the universe in a glass of rain. ~ Ihab Hassan
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.  To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ~R. Buckminster Fuller
Just because you thought it, or felt it deeply, doesn't make it real, true or important.  Don't believe everything you think... ~ Creighton Larson
Everything you Love and Everything you Hate, come from the Same Source:  ~Creighton Larson

#4    Beany

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 03:34 AM

There are those who would like to take our pain away, in what they see as an act of kindness & compassion, but it may be that pain is what will motivate us to make necessary changes in ourselves and our lives. To sit with someone who is in pain, to witness, without judgment or criticism, or "helpful" advice, can be very healing for both parties, as it's an affirmation of kinship. It's possible, too, that when we want to take someone's pain, there's an implication that the person doesn't have the resources or courage, or smarts, or whatever, to manage their own lives. Rob people of their pain and you rob them of valuable lessons about consequences, opportunities to a better understanding, and opportunities to have a win in their lives by figuring out how to overcome.


#5    quiXilver

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 08:18 AM

View PostBeany, on 10 February 2014 - 03:34 AM, said:

There are those who would like to take our pain away, in what they see as an act of kindness & compassion, but it may be that pain is what will motivate us to make necessary changes in ourselves and our lives. To sit with someone who is in pain, to witness, without judgment or criticism, or "helpful" advice, can be very healing for both parties, as it's an affirmation of kinship. It's possible, too, that when we want to take someone's pain, there's an implication that the person doesn't have the resources or courage, or smarts, or whatever, to manage their own lives. Rob people of their pain and you rob them of valuable lessons about consequences, opportunities to a better understanding, and opportunities to have a win in their lives by figuring out how to overcome.

Well said.
I often find my most appropriate response to be silence.
And I still hold, the most precious gift you can ever offer someone, is your complete attention.

Unknowingly, we plow the dust of stars, blown about us by the wind and drink the universe in a glass of rain. ~ Ihab Hassan
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.  To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete. ~R. Buckminster Fuller
Just because you thought it, or felt it deeply, doesn't make it real, true or important.  Don't believe everything you think... ~ Creighton Larson
Everything you Love and Everything you Hate, come from the Same Source:  ~Creighton Larson

#6    Beany

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 04:04 PM

View PostquiXilver, on 10 February 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

Well said.
I often find my most appropriate response to be silence.
And I still hold, the most precious gift you can ever offer someone, is your complete attention.

How beautiful and simple an act, and one that requires compassion, self-discipline, acceptance, stillness, wisdom, all those things than can be so difficult to achieve.


#7    markdohle

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 12:59 PM

View PostBeany, on 10 February 2014 - 03:34 AM, said:

There are those who would like to take our pain away, in what they see as an act of kindness & compassion, but it may be that pain is what will motivate us to make necessary changes in ourselves and our lives. To sit with someone who is in pain, to witness, without judgment or criticism, or "helpful" advice, can be very healing for both parties, as it's an affirmation of kinship. It's possible, too, that when we want to take someone's pain, there's an implication that the person doesn't have the resources or courage, or smarts, or whatever, to manage their own lives. Rob people of their pain and you rob them of valuable lessons about consequences, opportunities to a better understanding, and opportunities to have a win in their lives by figuring out how to overcome.

Yes, that is why I strive not to feel 'pity', it takes away from the dignity of others.  Well said, brilliant actually.

Peace
Mark





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