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Is evolution a hoax?


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#1    Eveshi

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 04:53 PM

I have been teaching biology for over 10 years but in the last few years I have started to have doubts, what if evolution is some sort of hoax? I mean we have actually never observed mega speciation. It's possible that God might of created species. I have Michael Cremo's books and he talks about a knowledge filtration and evolutionists covering up evidence that does not fit their belief system. Any thoughts?

Mike.


#2    questionmark

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:01 PM

Yes, if evolutionists cover up evidence then they are doing a pretty bad job of it.

What is certain is that creationists, such as Mr. Cremo, are trying hard to ignore the facts, and when that is insufficient, "add" a few new ones aimed at reinforcing their religious fervor.

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#3    Almagest

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:09 PM

No. It was convincing when Darwin first wrote about it and it was confirmed by genetics. To doubt it is to doubt that the Earth revolves around the Sun.

And if I'm wrong about it and it was all the product of divine creation then it was created in such a way to look like evolution.

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#4    Liquid Gardens

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:29 PM

View PostMikemikev, on 18 February 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

I have been teaching biology for over 10 years but in the last few years I have started to have doubts, what if evolution is some sort of hoax? I mean we have actually never observed mega speciation. It's possible that God might of created species. I have Michael Cremo's books and he talks about a knowledge filtration and evolutionists covering up evidence that does not fit their belief system. Any thoughts?

I don't know why we would expect to observe mega-speciation (macroevolution), that doesn't happen over the course of just a few generations.  Also the micro- vs macro-evolution distinction is a favorite one for creationists to harp on, but I've never heard one mention any details on what scientifically is preventing micro-evolution over thousands of generations resulting in different species.  This always seemed like one of the few areas of research that anti-evolutionists could look into, yet to my knowledge they have not.  Some creationists don't dispute that evolution is creating the incredible variety of dogs for instance, but for some reason they seem to believe that all the radical physical changes that can occur within a species can never result in, over time, the inability of these descendants to reproduce with each other.

As far as the accusation of 'evolutionists' covering up evidence, for this to really be believable we would need evidence of a massive scam occurring involving tens-hundreds of thousands of biologists.  From multiple countries no less.  No one has said it is not possible for God or aliens or leprechauns to create species, there just isn't any evidence of it occurring.

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#5    preacherman76

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:34 PM

View PostAlmagest, on 18 February 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

No. It was convincing when Darwin first wrote about it and it was confirmed by genetics. To doubt it is to doubt that the Earth revolves around the Sun.

MM he thought life was spontanously popping up all over the place. Like rats litteraly came from a garbage filled floor.

Quote


And if I'm wrong about it and it was all the product of divine creation then it was created in such a way to look like evolution.

Some parts of evolution are fact. Adaptation being one. But there is no evidence of species turning into other species. In fact the fossil record clearly shows at one level, no life, then a explosion of fully formed creatures on the next level. What did they say about that to make a square fit into a circle? What was it called?

Man has never created anything more complex as even the most simple cells in existance today. Personaly I think everything around us screams creation. Good luck in your studies. I hope you find what you are looking for.

Oh and welcome to the boards.

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#6    seeder

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:45 PM

View PostMikemikev, on 18 February 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

I have been teaching biology for over 10 years but in the last few years I have started to have doubts, what if evolution is some sort of hoax? I mean we have actually never observed mega speciation. It's possible that God might of created species. I have Michael Cremo's books and he talks about a knowledge filtration and evolutionists covering up evidence that does not fit their belief system. Any thoughts?

Mike.

Starting off simple, we have the fossil record, but forget that. Know anything about dog breeding? Or Mendels famous pea breeding experiments? Ever observed frog-spawn to see a tadpole develop a tail, then lose it again when it was a frog? Literally another creature!! Or a bug in chrysalis form in the ground/or water..that develops wings and becomes a butterfly?

Anyway, as I said, starting off simple. Now a good question. Why does man have fingernails? Canine teeth? A coccyx? A nervous system that provides powerful adrenaline for fight or flight? Body-hair?

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#7    preacherman76

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:45 PM

View PostLiquid Gardens, on 18 February 2014 - 05:29 PM, said:

I don't know why we would expect to observe mega-speciation (macroevolution), that doesn't happen over the course of just a few generations.  Also the micro- vs macro-evolution distinction is a favorite one for creationists to harp on, but I've never heard one mention any details on what scientifically is preventing micro-evolution over thousands of generations resulting in different species.  This always seemed like one of the few areas of research that anti-evolutionists could look into, yet to my knowledge they have not.  Some creationists don't dispute that evolution is creating the incredible variety of dogs for instance, but for some reason they seem to believe that all the radical physical changes that can occur within a species can never result in, over time, the inability of these descendants to reproduce with each other.

As far as the accusation of 'evolutionists' covering up evidence, for this to really be believable we would need evidence of a massive scam occurring involving tens-hundreds of thousands of biologists.  From multiple countries no less.  No one has said it is not possible for God or aliens or leprechauns to create species, there just isn't any evidence of it occurring.

Hey Liquid.

Im no expert on this subject. Not by a long shot. Nor am I even gonna argue about it, cause these conversations tend to get ugly fast. But we have seen billions of generation of bacteria, that have never evolved into anything but what they originaly were. We have seen millions of generations of fruit flies, and they remain fruit flies.

For me, and of course I admit im bias, it just seems to me that something must exist eternaly in order for anything to have ever existed. Everything known to man is in a state of decay. Meaning it all had a begining. Nothing we see is eternal. So if you go back far enough, from what we know today, there must have been a time of complete nothingness. Yet we know that 0+0=0 everytime. Without fail.

Anyhow thats just my opinion. Looking forward to reading what other folks have to say.

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#8    Liquid Gardens

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:52 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 18 February 2014 - 05:34 PM, said:

But there is no evidence of species turning into other species.

Actually there is (leaving aside that species don't literally 'turn into' other species):

http://talkorigins.o...c/CB/CB910.html

Quote

In fact the fossil record clearly shows at one level, no life, then a explosion of fully formed creatures on the next level.

I think you're referring to the Cambrian explosion; it is not true that before it there was 'no life', we have fossil evidence before that time of lifeforms.

Just read your reply, and just a couple comments.  First, do you think that the fact that wolves, foxes, and coyotes closely resemble each other but are different species is just a coincidence?  Did the creator start running out of ideas?  More importantly, why can't evolution simply be the process that the creator used, if you are inclined to believe in a creator?  If you believe what cosmology tells us, then the earth itself didn't exist for billions of years after the universe was created.  God/The Creator then seems to have used to laws of physics to eventually create the earth; if that's the case, then what's the issue with him using another natural process to create life and diversity?

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#9    Noteverythingisaconspiracy

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:52 PM

I dont think evolution is a hoax, because we have an enourmous amount of evidence for it.

What i would like to know is:

- What changed your mind ?

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#10    preacherman76

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 05:57 PM

View PostNoteverythingisaconspiracy, on 18 February 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

I dont think evolution is a hoax, because we have an enourmous amount of evidence for it.

What i would like to know is:

- What changed your mind ?

Yea Mike. Dont leave us hanging.

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#11    FLOMBIE

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:03 PM

A teacher, who doesn't know it's might have and not might of? That makes me wonder about the "hoax" in the OP.


#12    seeder

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:06 PM

Couple more things to ponder. Whales and dolphins. Need to breath. They look like fish, they swim like fish, they eat like fish. But theyre mammals, just like us

Now about creating new life. Its been done, sort of anyway, synthetically

"As for creating life from scratch, a big step was taken last May when famed geneticist J. Craig Venter and his team unveiled the first synthetic organism. The scientists crafted an entire genome from chemicals in the lab. They then implanted this synthetic genome in an empty cell, after which the cell booted up and began cranking out copies of its modified self per the implanted genetic instructions.

This artificial life form, dubbed Synthia, required the leftover cellular machinery made by a natural, preexisting organism, so science hasn't reached back to square one yet. "Venter did not create life," says Arthur Caplan, a bioethicist at the University of Pennsylvania, who was involved in the research. "But he showed that an artificial genome can power a bacterium, thereby taking a crucial step toward the demonstration that synthesizing life is possible."

http://www.popularme...ng-life#slide-4

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#13    Yes_Man

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:09 PM

View PostFLOMBIE, on 18 February 2014 - 06:03 PM, said:

A teacher, who doesn't know it's might have and not might of? That makes me wonder about the "hoax" in the OP.
or someone preaching


#14    preacherman76

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:13 PM

View PostLiquid Gardens, on 18 February 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Actually there is (leaving aside that species don't literally 'turn into' other species):

http://talkorigins.o...c/CB/CB910.html



I think you're referring to the Cambrian explosion; it is not true that before it there was 'no life', we have fossil evidence before that time of lifeforms.

Yes thats it. Thanks. It just seems to me that the Cambrian explosion defies alot of what we are told about evolution. If life forms could evolve that quickly, then why do evolutionists demand millions or billions of years for enough change to where a species can no longer mate with what was the same species. If that makes any sence.

Quote



Just read your reply, and just a couple comments.  First, do you think that the fact that wolves, foxes, and coyotes closely resemble each other but are different species is just a coincidence?  Did the creator start running out of ideas?  More importantly, why can't evolution simply be the process that the creator used, if you are inclined to believe in a creator?  If you believe what cosmology tells us, then the earth itself didn't exist for billions of years after the universe was created.  God/The Creator then seems to have used to laws of physics to eventually create the earth; if that's the case, then what's the issue with him using another natural process to create life and diversity?

I wish I could give you what would at least sound like a educated answer to your questions. But I cant claim to know the will of God, in how or why he did things the way he did. Is it possible He used evolution? I guess it is. He did say he made man from the dust of the earth. Which if you think about it, is a pretty profound statement for a 4000 year old document. I think alot of the conflicts come from the biblical discriptions of creation. Cause he didnt say the same thing for any other life form. Those according to scripture were just spoken into existance. So the problem from there (as some folks see it) is now to believe in evolution, you have to dismiss the creation story. There was a time when I myself would stand on the scriptures and defend what I believed to be its honor. But the older I get, the more I understand how very little I actualy understand. I ask God at least once a day to forgive my ignorance.

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#15    FLOMBIE

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Posted 18 February 2014 - 06:13 PM

View PostThe New Richard Nixon, on 18 February 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

or someone preaching
Exactly.

Edited by FLOMBIE, 18 February 2014 - 06:13 PM.





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